GP, you want UN figures of deaths but …
Comment posted Lord Maginnis of DRUMGLASS: speech in the Lords by Malcolm Channing.
GP, you want UN figures of deaths but you have not said from what cause or how you want the figures broken down. Are you trying to find out who killed whom? This would be difficult unless a court was to try and find guilty the culprit.
Malcolm Channing also commented
- GP wrote, “No, the cause of Cyprus problems in the past 50 years were very much at the feet of the British Empire and CIA.” Problems should be used as stepping stones in order to overcome them, not as obstacles which can be blamed for preventing you moving forward. It’s in the hands of Cypriots now and they can either move forward or stay stuck where they are. I don’t think Cypriots have actually had a chance to decide their own destiny for a thousand years or more so perhaps the freedom they were given in 1960 came as a bit of a shock – time to get over it?
- Without being pedantic, ‘cide’ means kill, ‘matricide’ means to kill your mother and ‘genocide’ means to kill people of a particular race as opposed to another. I don’t think for most of 1955-1974 GCs were picking on TCs only, they seemed to be targeting mostly GCs. It was in 1974 that the tide turned, and then only a small group of GCs were involved targeting TCs. Quite honestly, Cypriots have made a real mess of things since the British left 50 years ago but now your time has come. Please don’t blame it on the British as that has the feel of a childish adult blaming everything on their parents. There will be a vote next year, use your vote wisely this time GP. I don’t have a vote, I have no influence on the future of Cyprus, but you do.
- GP, can’t find UN figures but Wikipedia says that, “in total, some 133 Greek Cypriots and 191 Turkish Cypriots are known to have been killed in 1963 and 1964. 209 Turkish Cypriots and 41 Greeks were reported as missing.” (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_and_displacements_during_the_Cyprus_conflict)
I suppose that’s what kicked off the problem. Anyone else got attributable statistics for other dates?
Recent comments by Malcolm Channing
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so if there is a settlement and the north keeps the lira all the GCs will try to live in the north because it’s cheaper… the mind boggles - How to watch UK TV for free in north Cyprus
ooops, sorry about that, Karen’s right it’s www.thebox.bz - UEFA should have been tougher, APOEL FC must apologise to Turkish Cypriots
Of course GP, you’re always right. - UEFA should have been tougher, APOEL FC must apologise to Turkish Cypriots
GP will not even accept that the GCs are guilty of holding back 130,000 legitimate title deeds from people who have bought in the south recently. He comes up with all sorts of excuses of how it cannot possibly be true even though the facts are published in newspapers in the south and the EU are pressing the GCs to issue them. Watch him wiggle or ignore things he doesn’t like
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Nope nige, just tried uknova for Gavin & Stacey and got the message “Due to DVD release on 07/12/2009 – cancelled.” You have to try the test first before posting that a website is better than The Box
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‘Turkish Cypriot Genocide’ …you people are really low in trying to get the world to recognise a supposed genocide that didn’t happen.
Can someone please post the official U.N. figures of the number of deaths of both Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots between 1955 and 1974 please.
“Is J.D. Bowers, the international authority and respected American professor of genocide studies at Northern Illinois University, correct when he openly confirms that Greek Cypriots and EOKA-B, under the leadership of Nikos Sampson, were guilty of the genocide of Turkish Cypriots within the 1963 United Nations definition of “genocide”?”
Hold on, there was no EOKA B in 1963. It was formed in 1971.
GP, you want UN figures of deaths but you have not said from what cause or how you want the figures broken down. Are you trying to find out who killed whom? This would be difficult unless a court was to try and find guilty the culprit.
No I want someone to post the official UN figures of deaths caused by intercommunal clashes between 1955 and 1967. Then 1967 till the 20th July 1974. Then 20th July 1974 onwards. I have seen such reports before but cannot recollect the exact figures.
The reason why I post these specific points in time is because it would put to bed the rubbish claims of a) a supposed Turkish Cypriot genocide and b) Turkey invaded Cyprus to save Turkish Cypriots who were being attacked at the time. Both of these claims are myths that have been fabricated in hope to give Turkey’s illegal operation in Cyprus some sympathy.
I also want to see an OFFICIAL copy of the Akritas plan (as in a photocopy of the original document) where it says Turkish Cypriots should be wiped from Cyprus.
This is a challenge layed down to Embargoed! to find such evidence to back up their ridiculous and downright immoral allegations.
GP, can’t find UN figures but Wikipedia says that, “in total, some 133 Greek Cypriots and 191 Turkish Cypriots are known to have been killed in 1963 and 1964. 209 Turkish Cypriots and 41 Greeks were reported as missing.” (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_and_displacements_during_the_Cyprus_conflict)
I suppose that’s what kicked off the problem. Anyone else got attributable statistics for other dates?
Firstly, you can’t say those deaths alone kicked off the problem.
If that was the case, you could also point out the Turkish Cypriots joining the British forces to bully ordinary Greek Cypriot civilians or fight EOKA could be the start of the problem, or how about Turkish Cypriots being the first to commit murder of innocents between the two communities with the death of a group of Greek Cypriots by a Turkish Cypriot mob in a the village of Gunyeli in 1958. Maybe you could even say that Turkish Cypriot paramilitaries bombing there own buildings and blaming it on Greek Cypriots (a fact referred to by Denktash) in order to cause division, fueled the problems too. Or we could go back to plain old colonial rule over Greek Cypriots by the British and before them the Turks (ancestors of Turkish Cypriots).
At the end of the day, this is not the point im trying to make. The point in trying to make is what is fact and what is myth.
Anyway, as much as you can’t really trust Wikipedia because anyone can edit its pages, do those figures sound like genocide to you? Could that also mean that the death of Greek Cypriots at the time of the Turkish invasion, which were by far larger figures than what you quoted on Wikipedia, be counted as a genocide too?
Without being pedantic, ‘cide’ means kill, ‘matricide’ means to kill your mother and ‘genocide’ means to kill people of a particular race as opposed to another. I don’t think for most of 1955-1974 GCs were picking on TCs only, they seemed to be targeting mostly GCs. It was in 1974 that the tide turned, and then only a small group of GCs were involved targeting TCs. Quite honestly, Cypriots have made a real mess of things since the British left 50 years ago but now your time has come. Please don’t blame it on the British as that has the feel of a childish adult blaming everything on their parents. There will be a vote next year, use your vote wisely this time GP. I don’t have a vote, I have no influence on the future of Cyprus, but you do.
No, the cause of Cyprus problems in the past 50 years were very much at the feet of the British Empire and CIA. Right now, I blame the problem on Turkey, they simply want a piece of Cyprus for themselves.
No other country would accept the backwards and racist demands Turkey is putting on the Cypriot people.
GP wrote, “No, the cause of Cyprus problems in the past 50 years were very much at the feet of the British Empire and CIA.” Problems should be used as stepping stones in order to overcome them, not as obstacles which can be blamed for preventing you moving forward. It’s in the hands of Cypriots now and they can either move forward or stay stuck where they are. I don’t think Cypriots have actually had a chance to decide their own destiny for a thousand years or more so perhaps the freedom they were given in 1960 came as a bit of a shock – time to get over it?
Would it not be better to stop apportioning blame – what is done is done and cannot be undone. There is no point in arguing about who cast the first stone – it gets no-one anywhere. As with any conflict however great or small there are always the innocents who suffer, but the only way is to move on and get over it. If not, then there will only ever be bitterness and more conflict. There is no point in citing causes from 50 years ago…..there is a window of opportunity now – but I fear it will be shuttered. Differentiating fact and myth from so long ago doesn’t really solve anything……but facing facts right now might help.
Malcolm you are right, Cypriots haven’t been able to decide there own destiny for a very long time. So when we wanted to do so in the 1950′s, we were castigated for it. Malcolm, 1960 wasn’t freedom for Cypriots because they could not decide how to govern themselves and were given the choice of either a constitution they did not create or more foreign imperial rule. Besides, the future is not at the hand of Cypriots now, it’s at the hand of Turkey and this corrupt world we live in is letting Turkey eradicate Greeks from their home land not for the first or second time in history. The mainland settlers from Turkey are NOT Cypriots and Turkey is using them for their votes in the north.
Mrs Gee, differentiating fact from myth is important here when you have a group of people making up lies to gain sympathy, in order to inflict an immoral cause on another group of people.
GP – Okay so once the facts have been separated from the myths, what happens next – will it take anyone any further forward in the bigger scheme of things – I suspect not, unfortunately. But, what do I know?
You need facts, here is one..Greek Cypriots can not be trusted.
This person is Greek Antonis Angastiniotis listen what he said about his own people:
It was Greeks Cypriots who massacred
Turkish villages of Aloda ,Maratha and Sandalari . It was The Greek Cypriots of the
Neighbouring villages, along with army personnel, attacked these villages. They shot the children, the mothers and any old people of these villages, 126 people who were killed, human rights Greek activist Antonis Angastiniotis had called on the Greek Cypriot people to apologize to the Turkish Cypriot people, prosecute the culprits and pay compensation to the families of the deceased.
GP you wanted an evidence here is one:
The President of the Republic, however, in December 1963 attempted to redraft and amend the Constitution, to which he had pledged his allegiance. Furthermore the House of Representatives (consisting of Greek Cypriots only at the time) voted unanimously on June 27, 1967 that “it will not defer the struggle, presently carried out with the solidarity of all Greeks, until the union, without any intermediary stations, of the whole unified Cyprus with motherland Greece is implemented” (Minutes of the House of Representatives 1966-1967, page 1274).
Anyway, I just want to see Embargoed! give us proof of their Turkish Cypriot genocide.
GP
I can’t help if you can’t read article 13
Emir do you have dates when these events took place? Where they during the intercommunal riots in the 1960′s or revenge attacks by Greek Cypriots during the Turkish invasion?
Do you have figures to back up your accusations of a genocide or are you going to keep pretending that Turkish Cypriots were innocent during the era of the events you describe? Where there not Greek Cypriot deaths in the 1950′s and 60′s even before the Turkish invasion??
Where are Embargoed! with all the facts. I thought they were a professional Human Rights group??
GP you sound like you are not very good at your history.
slaughtered villages of Aloda ,Maratha and Sandalari was in 1974.
Emir, it sounds like you are not very good at your English because you have failed to grasp the definition of a genocide.
What you have documented was revenge attacks by Greek Cypriot paramilitaries on Turkish Cypriots civilians, as revenge for the death of Greek Cypriot civilians by Turkish Cypriot paramilitaries and the Turkish army. You DO KNOW that there were more innocent Greek Cypriot deaths in the summer of 1974 alone than the combined number of Cypriot deaths in the 1960′s…?
Way to go Ken,
Ken is well aware of what conflict means. He served in the military for the Unionists in Ireland.
A man who knows full well on what justice means.
What happened ken? You decided to get a place in an illegal state where only fugitives would willingly call home and then you went out public with it in the house of lords?
I bet you couldnt find anyone else to agree with you in the whole house.
Have another pint my lord and leave Cyprus to Cypriots. We dont need your kind around here. Go back to the damp you call Belfast
Dobro