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Pauline Read on How safe is your money in north Cyprus banks?
Local Turkish banks have a deposit protection scheme called the Savings Deposit Insurance Fund of Turkey (SDIF) or in Turkish TASARRUF MEVDUATI SİGORTA FONU (TMSF). This is a fund first established back in the 1930’s but which has been revised regularly since. The scheme protects certain deposits and investments that are held in registered Turkish banks and, unlike the UK, the scheme is actually a fund and not just underwritten by the banks.
Deposits covered by the scheme include Turkish Lira, foreign exchange currency or accounts linked to precious metals such as gold and silver. However, business accounts and offshore accounts are not covered under this scheme. The maximum pay out is 50,000 TL per person per bank – around 20,000 GBP. Additionally, if the bank goes into administration before it collapses then ALL deposits held by private individuals are covered.
Banking with HSBC in Girne, for example, does not offer better protection as these banks are classified and registered as foreign commercial banks established in Turkey. Although these are part of well known global brands they are stand alone banks in Turkey and you would have to claim from the SDIF.
Many Cypriots, remembering the 2001 banking crisis in Turkey, will advise you to bank with one of the nationalised banks such as Vakif, Ziraat Bank or Halk Bank. They believe you are offered greater protection because these banks are unlikely to collapse. Whilst this ‘may’ be the case you can achieve the same effect by spreading your money around different banks and managing risk and return. Don’t forget the scheme only covers 50,000 TL per person per bank.
Source:
[1] Fethiye Times
Well that is not the way the banks here describe the scheme (& I’m not just referring to on Bank I mean all the Banks). They say that each account at the Bank is guaranteed up to 20,000 Euros. I notice that your source is Fethiye Times. Is the scheme in Turkey itself different from that In the TRNC?
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You can take the 50,000Tl in Euros if you want, it would come out at 23,691 Euros at the moment but as sterling it is now £21,289 as it is no longer 2.5TL to the £. I guess I tend to work in the currency of the country still.
For Turkish banks it will be the Turkish scheme and I can’t imagine TC banks being any different if they want to remain competitive.
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YS, zombies are fictional the Turkish banking regulations are not
What does “cheapskates” meaan? lol
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Malcolm,
The regulations are not but the moment you end up in court you will realise that “justice” in the north is a zombie
Promises are as good as the one who makes them !
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GR, the official term is “north Cyprus”, as used by Europe Minister, Caroline Flint, in her speech titled ‘a Cyprus settlement: who benefits?’ at the London School of Economics on 25 February 2009. There is no evidence of the use of the hard-line GC term “occupied territory of Cyprus” except to provoke retaliation. Are you going to be nasty today?
boo, hoo. You are going to be nasty – nothing on the telly or have the police arrested you at the betting office again?
Here we have a situation whereby a part of an island is considered by the UN , the EU , including of course Britain and the rest of the world as being under the occupation of Turkey , no buts or ifs , the northern part of Cyprus is occupied by Turkey so says the international community.
Proprerties belonging to the 160 thousand plus G/Cs who were forced to leave in fear of their lives heve been usurped by the Turkish army and in turn sold to unscrupulous developers who in turn sold them off to … half blind Brits !!! Now the Brits are waking up and smelling the Turkish coffee wondering even if the Turkish banks are safe !! Look Zombies this pseudo state is the creation of Turkey who set about destroying the identity of this part of the island , importing thousands of Anatolian peasants , denying the T/Cs their birth right of calling themselves Turkish CYPRIOTS , and you the Brits with no brain wonder if the banks are safe !!!!
Get out while you can and stop encouraging others to follow in your footsteps and investing their hard earned money in this illegal state !
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Malcolm,
The term “north Cyprus” refers to the geographic north of the island and it does not imply anything about a state or its status.
The official status is indeed “area under Turkish occupation” and I do not see any hard-line term in it.
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Malcolm, for your info, Caroline joined our forum and was asking the most basic of questions about Cyprus not too long ago in an effort to “catch up” with the sudden assignment she was handed; a subject she knew absolutely nothing about! I’ll bet she couldn’t even point to Cyprus on a map when she was first sent her!
The UN and EU officially refer to the “TRNC” as the “subordinate local administration of Turkey” and certainly NOT “north Cyprus” so it’s an error on the part of Caroline due to inexperience!
Paste “subordinate local administration of Turkey” in your search engine and you’ll get hundreds of hits.
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Misleading articles like this radiate very bad and undeserved publicity for Cyprus, (which incidentally is a ME financial Mecca for your info Malcolm), because the unaware reader in Dubai or the UAE has no idea that this is the out of control occupied territory you’re actually referring to and automatically assumes that Cypriot banks are unsafe but of course nothing could be further from the truth!
If you want to play the journalist GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER Malcolm!
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You know, Get Real, if you and your mates would take a break from the ceaseless, unwavering spin that flows unchecked from your keyboards, and tried a little harder to ease up on the nastiness and hysteria, you’d become a lot more credible.
Mr Real, you’ve just admitted that the north of Cyprus is actually referred to officially as the “subordinate local administration of Turkey”, which is certainly not “area under Turkish occupation”", as Kyri claims. Quite clearly, the only reason you lot use that description is for spin and provocation.
Get real guys…get your act together.
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Name me one Country in the WORLD where Banks are 100% safe?
Greece doesnt look too healthy at the moment – but in fairness
neither did USA – UK and especially Iceland.
Also just look at the imprudent lending policies Banks have
adopted with Builders both sides of the divide!!
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Hi Guys,
If we let the respected organisation Freedom House decide what TRNC should be known as, they call it either Turkish or Northern Cyprus. Not only do the they not refer to it as “occupied”, they class it as being Free, scoring it slightly less than “RoC” and slightly more than Turkey.
http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=22&year=2009&country=7754
You wanna argue about this, take it up with them, not me.
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It showes how ill informed you are Sir , the RoC IS RECOGNIZED.
It is not under the occupation of a foreign country , as a member of the UN the EU and all other international organizations it does not warrant inverted commas , only the very ill informed and rather stupid would refer to a European member state in inverted commas .
What a Plonker !!
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Yiannis,
See message 14….
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Ian,
Another one of your amazing arguements !!! The term “subordinate local administration of Turkey” refers to an administration (i.e. this is how they call your so called “state”
whereas “area under Turkish occupation” refers to the geographic part of the island.
The subordinate local administration of Turkey controls the area of RoC which is under Turkish occupation.
Is that clear enough?
Vaughan,
Is this “Freedom House” thing more respected than the “House of Fraser” in the UK or “Freedom Pub” in Thailand? Sorry for the silly questions but I have not heard about this “respected organisation” before.
Regardless of the above I have checked their site and I did no see any “decisions” regarding names. Where do they say ” we beleive that this….should be called….”? All I saw is an evaluation of the level of freedom tha the citizens of the self proclaimed state enjoy. Shame that they respectfully ingore everything else.
Anyway, I beleive that if they have any objections with the terms used by the UN they can take it up with them, not me.
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Vaughan Williams, your link is American propaganda junk and not authorized to conduct anything!
These are credible links…
http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net/index_files/CredibleLinks.htm
Learn to research properly.
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Well let’s see, apparently according the Wikipedia, “Northern Cyprus or North Cyprus (Turkish: Kuzey Kıbrıs), and known officially as the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) (Turkish: Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti, KKTC)”
Go and argue with them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Cyprus
We can always create a Wiki page and call it “Malcolm Channing is an idiot!” if you like, would you like to see one?
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Kyri and GR,
I just can’t understand how you guys don’t see your one-sided arguments as being total spin! You both seem intelligent enough, but unable to remove your blinkers.
Kyri, your “explanation” for the terms referring to TRNC is simply your take on them, and all GR is able to do is to refer everyone to his own website as the only “credible” source! As though he should be the sole arbiter on all things credible!
INcredible.
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YS,
If I don’t recognize the “RoC”, I will put it in parenthesis. If you will allow recognition of the defacto existence of the TRNC, perhaps we can do a deal?
Baron Kyri,
Just because you haven’t heard of Freedom House, doesn’t mean it don’t exist and that it isn’t a credible organization. If you read the about us section and look at its history, I think you will have a job dismissing it.
Unreal,
I suppose that you think Freedom House is American propaganda junk specially set up to support Turkey and the TRNC, to the particular detriment of the “RoC”. I also imagine that you deem any research that doesn’t back up your rather one-sided views, as being “not proper”.
Vaughan, 14th Earl of Malatya, TRNC.
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So GR, I looked at your list of “credible sources” to see how they referred to Cyprus and got this http://www.un.int/cyprus/
They don’t think much of the country do they, if you take that page as an example of the care they take when publicising the country! It’s not even the “RoC” it’s just Cyprus and so I guess there is a north and a south part.
Malcolm, you’re one of the stupidest people I’ve ever come across because had you clicked on [Enter] something would’ve bitten you on the nose!
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Banking substantial amounts anywhere is a risk, but in general savings interest rates North and South are always reasonable. I am not sure why but I think GCs and TCs prefer to borrow money rather than to save it and that helps keep the rate of savings return at more than enough to live well on.
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GR, what are you talking about? You’re not back to zombies again? I told you, they’re fictional. Any comments about the actual page that comes up when you click on the UN’s link to Cyprus? No? It certainly isn’t called “RoC.”
Show me anywhere in the world where banks are 100% safe.
Greece is a little shaky at present ergo the banks are
suffering too. U.S. and U.K. banks have given cause
for concern. Do not mention Iceland.
Unchecked lending to Builders both North and South Cyprus
could undermine the system cos we all know how good builders
are at meeting their debts.
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VW , mes 24.
So , you dont recognize the RoC !!! The entire world DOES but not you !!! What a Plonker !
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Ian I am sure your realise by now that
Get Real is a head case and Kyri just likes
pulling our chains to get a reacntion (dont get flushed
with success Kyri)
They should both be grateful to Malcolm for giving
them this platform to air their views – other forums
would have banned them by now. Long live free speech
and original or even unoriginal thought. Good on ya Malcolm
Oh, and you 2 naughty boys from the Dark side – keep taking the
tablets……..
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Thanks for that Polly.
YS,
Msg 30.
Not just me.
You forgot the 90-odd million people in Turkey and TRNC.
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VW Mes 33.
Turkeys population even if it was 6 billion and all not recognizing a nation member of the UN , the EU and of ALL other international forums still does not in any way confer validity to their refusal to recognize the RoC. I can understand Turkeys position since Turkey is the one who created the “trnc” hense she is reluctant to accept that her actions and continued occupation of a part of a sovereign state are illegal , therefore she does not recognize the RoC. However when Plonkers such as you Sir , and a Plonker you most certainly are having purchased dubious property in occupied Cyprus , decide to show their utter ignorance and stupidity in NOT recognizing a nation that their OWN country recognizes then you become laughable . Most of you cheapskates are indeed laughable , you even wonder if the banks in this pseudo state are safe !!!
I have posted before that the Brits who enter Cyprus via illegal ports of entry should be arrested on entering the RoC AND TREATED AS ILLEGAL BLOODY IMMIGRANTS.
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Polly , would this “dark side ” be the side that provides free health care to T/Cs , cancer sufferers and other misfortunates , and even delivers by courriers medical supplies to the sick and needy. Would this be the dark side that the entire world , apart from the cheapskates , recognizes as the RoC ?
You and the rest of cheapskates are a disgrace to the British nation , you are nothing more than opportunists accessories to crime , the sort of crime that in the UK we call ” back of the lorry ” goodies.
You live in a non recognized so called “trnc” , YOU ARE CONSUMED WITH HATRED DIRECTED AT G/Cs , you are being ripped off right left and centre and you are too bloody small minded to see.Go on , ask Malcolm to ban me just as the CY44 nonsense of a forum have done !! May I just say that 70% of my family are English and I’m proud that none are cheapskates such as you .Get lost will you !
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Hey Yiannis,
What are you lot going to do when the talks fail?
Your delegation won’t even consider the TR proposals, so fail they must.
Will you accept the existing partition as it is?
Will you invade back?
Will you keep insulting and complaining for the next 35 years?
What will you do, exactly?
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YS,
Your 34.
You said – “I have posted before that the Brits who enter Cyprus via illegal ports of entry should be arrested on entering the RoC AND TREATED AS ILLEGAL BLOODY IMMIGRANTS.”
My question to you would be – O.K., you tell us. Why aren’t they arrested? It is clear your voice isn’t being heard, which I can understand, but why DON’T they arrest us, if indeed the legislation exists? After all, illegal entry is a criminal act, not a civil one.
Your 35.
It is clear who is consumed with hatred here, and it isn’t TRNC Brits against GCs.
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Yeah, Yiannis, I’d have to agree with Vaughan here.
There clearly is a lot of hatred around the situation, but the vast majority of it emanates from GCs and is heading north…
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Ian Edwards: “What are you lot going to do when the talks fail?”
Here are the most likely…
1. Greek Cypriots will be pressing on with indictments that were held back in the last year or two, so you should expect a surge of them.
2. Non Tax-paying Turkish Cypriot’s privileges should come under the spotlight.
3. The huge Orthodox Church Vs Turkey case will have gained momentum by the end of this year at Turkey’s detriment.
4. The Orams will be crucified and eventually (quite likely) file bankruptcy.
5. I expect a fall in the number of Turkish Cypriots being employed in the unoccupied territory both as a result of rising unemployment and a higher reluctance of GSc to employ them.
6. The RoC will lash out even more aggressively at the “TRNC” to thwart every possible attempt to violate agreed Cyprus regulations and international law.
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Yiannis, Its great what being a member of the EU has done
for you – no freebies like that available when I lived in
Paphos from 1989 to 1998 especially for ex pats. I wish I was
as clever as you, you know all my circumstances yet we’ve never
met. WHY am I not surprised that you are a refugee from CYPRUS 44.
Please Malcolm DO NOT BAN HIM HE IS SUCH GOOD VALUE!! Makes
Get Real and Kyri sound like pussycats.
Calm down, take a deep breath, ask Kyri for some tablets (better
yet get your wonderful health service to deliver you some) then
vent your spleen some more. You are great.
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It’s OK Polly, NCFP needs to show a wide spectrum of GC opinion. I understand the anger. I’m quite sure that Turkey had reasons,other than to save TC lives, to invade/intervene in 1974 but the crucial thing to me is whether they were justified in staying. Unfortunately for GCs the deciding factor for TCs is the current relative safety of the north compared to pre-1974 Cyprus. If GCs are serious about a settlement they would be trying to persuade TCs that a pre-1974 situation could never occur again. By saying that Turkey should not be allowed to intervene in the future begs the question as to why GCs feel they would ever need to.
I was hoping for a bit more pro-settlement (of any kind) discussion but most, but not all, GC comments are bitter. This prolonged bitterness is, I believe, why TCs want to be separate. If the Cyprus Talks were marriage counselling sessions in order to save a marriage then divorce would be inevitable because the husband couldn’t get over the infidelity of the wife.
Polly, you’ve been trying to attract my attention from a distance for a while now, but are you SURE you want it? This is unkie GR you’re talking to…
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Unkie GR – now is that uncle GR OR HUNKIE GR – surely not
unkind GR??
You do not need to pull your punches just cos I am a girly’
Sticks and stones””sticks and stones …….. best be careful
when I say that – last time I was threatened/promised a spanking
by Kyri.
Seriously, I respect everyones right to an opinion even if I
vehemently disagree with it. Agree to disagree is my motto.
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Ian , it may surprise you to know that for the last 4 or so years I have been raising funds for the T/C Cancer organization , Tulip Cancer in Nicosia. I’m well known as a man who does not mince his words and also that I’m a true Cypriot , one that does not see majorities or minorities but just Cypriots . My allegiance is the RoC being the only legal entity recognized the world over.
The T/Cs are my compatriots , those that is who consider Cyprus their motherland and not some foreign nation , therefore Greece and Turkey are as far as I’m concerned foreign nations , related perhaps but foreign nations nevertheless . What gets my back up its Brits who stupidly out of greed or out of not been able to afford prices in the RoC opt for a part of Cyprus that everyone in the world considers to be under the occupation of Turkey , everyone that is apart from the brainless Brits who invested their lives savings in dodgy northern Cyprus.
Not everything in the RoC is perfect far from it but it does meet its legal obligations to all its citizens T/Cs included. Did you know that more than 60 thousand T/Cs are in possession of the Cypriot ID and passports and that a very large number are receiving free health care.
THE EXTREMISTS FROM BOTH SIDES WERE THE PARTIES RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE CONFLICT THAT OUR ISLAND SUFFERED.
Let me finish by assuring you that I detest all crimes and criminals , I consider those that have ” purchased ” my land stolen by the Turkish army to be criminals .
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Yiannis, you are a very confused man who cannot accept criticism and so would have stopped reading by now. For the rest of the readers this is what he has just said:
“I detest all crimes and criminals” he then explains what he means by a CRIME as “those that have PURCHASED, my land.” This has to be the correct definition because “T/Cs are my compatriots,” so the fact they sold his land does not matter. I can see it now in good old “RoC”, when they find someone selling stolen goods they let them off and instead go off and persecute those who have bought them, but not all of them, only the “Brits,” every other nationality is innocent. The “Brits” are to blame for everything, including his haemorrhoids, no doubt!
It”ll be fascinating to see how he deals with this.
You are right Malcolm for every British Buyer there had to be
a Turkish/Turkish Cypriot vendor, but hey thats ok they dont
know any better. Lets just demonise the British and lets not
forget the German, French, Russian etc ex patsys who dared to want a place in the sun. We are tried and found guilty by Lord Justice Yiannis – there is no Appeal. Long live democracy.
Get out the black cap.
Yiannis are you taking your medication?
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Malcolm , I omitted other nationals who purchased stolen properties in the occupied part of Cyprus because I was dealing with specifically the Brits and not the Germans , Russians or other nationalities . The average T/C did not get involved in either selling or buying dubious property , the selling was concentrated in the hands of mostly Turkish army officials , ” trnc” officials such as mayors , mouctars , relations of political dynasties such as those of Denktash and so on. The majority of the T/Cs are opposed to the selling of G/C properties out of principle , you however and the rest of the cheapskates took advantage of cheap stolen properties and proudly proclaimed your allegiance to a corrupt regime , a corrupt judiciary and a corrupt administrative system because you benefited or at least you thought like the Orams did , that you were on to a real bargain.
There are some characters on the CY 44 forum who are so twisted and bitter that they direct their hatred against the G/Cs out of fear of losing out on their dodgy investments.
Can you tell me why you believe that I’m somewhat confused , my position and views are well know on the PROPER CYPRUS FORUM , where freedom of views is allowed and encouraged unlike the CY 44 , Turkish administered forum , where unless one accepts the legality of a regime that the entire world considers illegal , is immediately banned.
I say again , I’m a G/C who considers to be a Cypriot first and foremost and who would embrace any Cypriot , T/C , Armenian , English Cypriot etc as a compatriot and equal under the law of the land , just like it is here in the UK. I again reiterate that I’m considered by most that know me as an Anglophile and as I posted earlier a large part of my family are English , I’m therefore not driven by any animosity towards the Brits but by my sheer abhorrence of those who took advantage of a sad situation for personal gain.
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Yiannis, then please use the term “people” instead of “Brits.”
Most TCs may be against selling property in the north but most property is SOLD BY TCs in the north. Please confirm that if a TC SELLS a property that you believe they should eventually be prosecuted in the manner that people who have bought property will be.
Yiannis,
Firstly, I commend you on whatever work you are doing for a cancer organisation, regardless of who it is benefitting. That gets my respect.
And I have to say also that I’m just so glad I’m an Australian, and therefore exempt from your anti-Brit tirades. It’s very comforting to know that I at least haven’t been guilty of theft, greed, stupidity or carpetbuggery…
But, and here I’m afraid I must take you to a little bit of task, you continue to gush the same tired old party line..”THE EXTREMISTS FROM BOTH SIDES WERE THE PARTIES RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE CONFLICT THAT OUR ISLAND SUFFERED.” You guys simply cannot comprehend that it wasn’t 30-all, but 40-love in favour of the GCs. It was murder, mayhem and discrimination on a country-wide scale, and when Turkey invaded the lands weren’t “stolen” from you, they were captured in a war. One you lost.
As Malcolm has tried to explain to you, you can’t now logically target one group of people just because they are easy marks. Pouring scorn and hatred upon them is counterproductive to any settlement of the whole situation.
If you guys can’t put the past where it belongs, there will never again be a united Cyprus. Sad but true.
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Malcolm Channing,
Wikipedia is a source of “credible” information!!! You will never stop to amaze me Malcolm
OMG, the more I read the more surprised I become. Yes, Malcolm, this is what I have been telling you all along. It is just Cyprus and of course it has a north and a south part. It even has an east and a west. But it is one country called Cyprus Malcolm, RoC being the full name (just like France is called French Republic and Germany is called Federal Republic of Germany). Anyway, if you pressed “enter” on the UN webpage you would see:
The Republic of Cyprus, since its independence in 1960, has been an active member ofthe UN Organization and, though small, has made a substantial contribution to a variety ofissues of global concern, from human rights and International Law to issues ofdecolonization, disarmament and peacekeeping.
Cyprus, firmly adheres to the high principles of the UN Charter and International Law.It has constructively worked together with other member states for the realization ofthese goals. Being for more than 30 years a victim of invasion and occupation, we placeour hopes on the good offices mission of the UN Secretary-General for the implementationof the decisions of the Organization and the finding of a just and viable solution. Cypruscontinues its efforts for a settlement that will safeguard the independence, sovereignty,territorial integrity, unity of the country and the full restoration and implementation ofthe human rights and fundamental freedoms of all its citizens without discrimination.
I do not know if my eyes are playing tricks but on the UN page I see “Republic of Cyprus” as well as the words “invasion” and “occupation”. Are you that allergic to these that you cannot see them?
“By saying that Turkey should not be allowed to intervene in the future begs the question as to why GCs feel they would ever need to”.
Well, I am sorry to note that you do not even understand the bare minimum of our concerns. We do feel that they would ever need to but we feel that they will anyway. If they need to or not is very subjective and easy to “stage”. How about killing 3-4 of their people themselves so that “they need to”?
You talk about bitterness. I have told you something in the past and you chose to ignore it. Had you been less provocative (you in plural) and more fair, had you at least acknowledged some basic facts and were less bitter and twisted yourselves our comments would be different. My comments are different in Greek blogs I contribute to !!! I believe that Yiannis’ 44 post is also relevant.
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Get Real,
I believe you can no longer create a Wiki page that easily. Try it though, it would be nice.
Please do not forget to include a paragraph about Ian who loves dressing up and firing banks
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Ian,
Even if you and your mates would take a break from the ceaseless, unwavering spin that flows unchecked from your keyboards, and tried a little harder to ease up on the nastiness and hysteria, you’d become a tiny bit more credible. However, it would take much more than that to make you reasonably credible.
If you cannot understand that the term “administration” refers to an administration and the term “area” to an area (and that an occupied area can have a subordinate administration) then I do not know why I bother with you. In anyway, both terms are correct, one of them does not cancel the other and both are used, not by me, but by the UN and by all governments including yours. The rest is just more of your nonsense.
Sorry, Turkey does not use these terms. I guess if I added the word “democratic” or “civilized” before “all governments” in my previous sentence I would not have to make this correction.
By the way, I am sure that if you buy cheap stolen homes, stolen electrical appliances and furniture and in general if you only buy stolen goods you will be able to bank even more money and live even better off the interest
I am sure you have already thought about that.
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Vaughan,
There are 100s of “credible” organizations in the world and about 99% of them got it right. In anyway, Freedom House referred to the “freedoms of the citizens of the de facto state” and did not take into account the right of the state to exist or the way it treats GCs. Taking the status quo for granted it merely states that people can vote, people can have fair trials and so on. So what?
Regarding Freedom House being an American propaganda junk or not this is a very complicated and long issue. Not many, however, would deny that such organizations have their own agendas which are usually aligned with the powerful US. Many would even claim that the UN itself has become one!
There are two errors in your name and title (Vaughan, 14th Earl of Malatya, TRNC). TRNC should read “TRNC” and Malakya is with a K, not with a T
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Polly,
“We all know how good builders are at meeting their debts”.
What do you mean? Have you been married to a builder that dumped you for a decent model, for one that can actually “think”?
So the only thing you understood about me is that I just like pulling our chains to get a reaction? hahahahahahaha
So you have been living here for almost ten years before you decided to become a scavenger. I think I now know what you problem is and why you hate us so much. Was he just using you for his own pleasure Polly? Did he hurt you?
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Dear all,
When I first joined this website I thought that I had to deal with reasonable and intelligent people willing to have honest discussions, open minded people who wanted to exchange opinions and ideas. I mistakenly though that these people would be interested in the truth and that concrete facts and correct arguments would help get closer to the truth.
On the other hand I found bitter and stubborn people who would use childish and stupid arguments to support things which are so obviously wrong. I found people who are willing to support a lie with passion simply because it suits their petty and poxy argument. I realized that the aim here is not to find the truth but to score points and piss off each other.
Your recent posts about “angry and bitter GCs” made me think and I have to admit that you are right. I have become bitter. I have been provoked, insulted and taken for an idiot and as a result I became one of you. Winning an argument became an issue, not the essence of the argument itself, something that I am not proud of.
I have recently found some other places on the web where the situation is different. Places were I can talk with people I disagree with and end up agreeing about most things. I therefore decided to stop wasting my time with you lot and leave you alone.
Good bye guys and keep enjoying your meaningless bitter arguments. At the end of the day despite what I or you say the Republic of Cyprus does exist and you live in stolen homes in the occupied north which is under the subordinate local administration of Turkey.
I wish from the bottom of my heart that you will eventually experience the kind of justice you so vigorously defend.
Good bye to you all.
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Kyri we will miss you. Just because I dont agree with someone
doesnt mean I hate them. I do not hat anyone – such a negative
emotion. Good luck in the future but I do suspect we’ll hear
from you again in another guise. You love us really
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Ian mes 49
Had you properly read my posts you would have noted that my harsh criticism is aired not only against the brainless greedy Brits but also all others who out of greed have purchased properties in the occupied part of Cyprus , not won by Turkey as you so unintelligently state in a war , but stolen by Turkey , a nation of 70 million who invaded a tiny island under the pretext of safeguarding the lives of T/Cs and put and to the “ongoing massacre “that 6 years prior to the invasion cost the lives of …3 or is it 4 units not tens , hundreds or thousands.
Did you know my Ausie friend that 6 years prior to the Turkish invasion NO CONFLICT EXISTED ON THE ISLAND OF CYPRUS.
If you want to learn something about the 1963 events leading to the invasion may I suggest you obtain a copy of “OYSTERS WITH THE MISSING PEARLS ” by a T/C journalist / author SEVGUL ULUDAG , you may very well learn something , somehow I very much doubt it .
You may also have missed the fact that a very large number of my immediate as well as extended family are English , I also have South African and Australian relations as well as a T/C .I’m not driven by any hatred towards a person because of his or her nationality , I detest cheapskates who out of greed , or rather because they could not afford in the free part , elected for stolen goodies in the occupied part. Make no mistake mate , you and the rest of cheapskates had one and only consideration when purchasing stolen property . CHEAP !!
THIS IS WHY I REFER TO YOU ALL AS cheapskates , precisely what you yourselves know its true. You came , you bought because ITS CHEAP.
“”"”"anti-Brit tirades ” you say , what nonsense , my grandchildren and children are British !!
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Hi Yiannis,
I’m not sure you’ll ever realise it, but all your invective and insulting language is falling on deaf ears. I have two simple questions for you:
1. What does “Enosis” REALLY mean?
2. Were “you” or were “you” not attempting to remove all TCs from Cyprus?
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Ian mes 58,
Firstly let me assure you that the overwhelming majority of G/Cs , myself included , consider ENOSIS – Union with Greece as dead and buried , may I also emphasize that the ENOSIS notion that surfaced in the mid 50s was one supported by the overwhelming majority of Cypriot people , I see nothing at all wrong with the vast majority expressing in a democratic way an aspiration that had been deeply entrenched in the G/C minds of the time .
I oppose ENOSIS now I did not then.
You ask if I was , obviously you mean the G/Cs , attempting to remove all T/Cs from Cyprus. The answer is an emphatic no. The T/Cs are an integral part of the Cypriot people however they were mislead by Turkey , just look at the name they gave the occupied part of Cyprus , Turkish Republic , the RoC is not the Greek Republic of Cyprus and it will never be as such , we are an independent nation and shall remain as such.
I insult all the cheapskates at every opportunity that I get , they are low down accessories to theft , they could not care less either about the T/Cs or the people of Cyprus at large. They have stupidly invested money in a part of the world that the international community considers to be under the occupation of Turkey and they deserve all that they get .
I noted your comments regarding Turkey winning the land and not stealing it , the same scenario I presume when Hitler conquered half of Europe , he won did not steal !!!
How old you mate ?
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Hey Yiannis,
Clearly it was Enosis and the way it was being campaigned by the EOKA thugs that was the root cause of the modern day conflict in Cyprus, and I’m glad to see that you, and apparently many GCS, have now renounced it.
But you keep harping on about a democratic choice of the vast majority of Cypriots to embrace it. It certainly was a large majority, probably at least two-thirds of the population. The GC two-thirds. How many TCs do you think voted for it? That’s what you guys don’t seem to get. You seem to believe that because the majority of the island was GC, then they had the right to rule the island for the benefit of the GCs, and that was what Black Mac was trying to do…it’s called discrimination.
You say an emphatic “no” to my question about trying to remove all TCs from the island, but I think most people who are not GCs would find that just not true, and history would seem to support them.
Yes, Hitler conquered half of Europe at one stage, but I have news for you, Yiannis…he lost. His country was then under the complete control of the winners. I’m old enough to know that.
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At the age of 12 in 1958 I , along with many other young people joined the struggle against the British , my older brother was a full active member of the noble liberation organization of EOKA . Thugs to you mate but not to the people on whose behalf they fought to libearte our island from the British Imperialists. The people of Cyprus had every right to resist the British occupation which followed the Turkish occupation of 1571.
It seems to me that you have a very limited , if any , knowledge of either the Cypriot people or Cyprus in general , you remind me of my late father in law who cane from Newcastle and had been a prisoner of war in Japan. When my late wife , cancer took her away two months ago , took me to her house in 1963 and introduced me to her parents her father on hearing that I was a G/C reacted very angrily and almost threw me out of his house. I asked why he resented my presence and he told me what he thought of the Cypriot terrorists ! Three years later I married his daughter , he gave his blessing and respected my standing up to him and his narrow minded views , like yours . The EOKA fighters were a well disciplined bunch of decent guys who were doing what every enslaved person should do.Do not mix EOKA with EOKA B .
I grew up amongst T/Cs , I have NEVER nurtured any hatred against them and have always considered them as my brothers and sisters.
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3 October 1958: Mrs. Catherine Cutliffe, her daughter Margaret, and their German born friend Mrs. Elfriede Robinson, are in Hermes Street, Famagusta. As they leave a shop in the Greek quarter of Varosha/Maras, two youths open fire. One gunman shoots Mrs. Cutliffe twice in the back, then twice more, as she lies bleeding on the street. She dies almost immediately and is buried in Wayne’s Keep Military Cemetery, because her husband is a Sergeant in 29 Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/Most%20wanted/most_wanted.html
Malcolm ,an 18 year old G/C school boy was brutally murdered by the British occupation forces in Famagusta , he was shot dead in cold blood , the crime , he was carrying the Greek flag in a student demonstration against the British occupation of Cyprus.Do you want to guess which British yob shot him ? Its time that you realize that Britain was a bully , a nation administered by thugs , crooks , expense fiddlers , child bloody molesters irresponsible educated fools who cared nothing about the welfare of the British people and were interested in feathering their own bloody nests just as they are today. The British have been found out mate so don’t give me the shit about terrorists .
In todays Britain , young thugs , the same thugs that beat my father , my brother and my self at the age of 10 years old , are still operating in the streets of Britain , attacking ambulances , medics attending emergencies , fire brigades , doctors and nurses carrying out their duties , these same bastards were around in Cyprus in 1955 ,I witnessed these terrorist yobs inflict serious bodily harm on my father and brother , as a 10 year old I went to their assistance only to be viciously beaten by a drunk British yob , so cut the crab out .
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Brits kill children, EOKA kill women. Sorry, which act is wrong? They are BOTH wrong! I can see that but you can’t?
What makes you think that I condone the killing of either women or children Malcolm. Both are dreadful , horrid , inhumane acts.
The killing of the one AND ONLY ONE WOMAN , in the entire period of the struggle was wrong , regardless of whose wife the murdered victim was.Much has been made out of this one and only horrendous act against a defenceless woman.RIP .
I condemn all killings of innocent people .
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Hi Yiannis,
Firstly, my sincere condolences to you for the loss of your wife. Cancer is a vile disease which unfortunately I know something about.
Yiannis, as you say, you were there in the middle of it all, on the GC side. And therein lies the obvious truth…you are, quite understandably, totally and irrevocably biassed. You are simply unable to be objective about the issue.
I was living in a country half a world away, and have no such emotional ties to either side. I am therefore able to see both sides objectively, and just because I’ve purchased a villa in the north doesn’t automatically instil in me a hatred of GCs or total, subjective, historical blindness.
A “noble liberation organisation”, a “well disciplined bunch of decent guys who were doing what every enslaved person should do.”
Which “one and only woman” were you referring to, Yiannis, the British army officer’s wife or the TC officer’s wife and children who were slaughtered in their bathtub?
To outsiders who can read history, Yiannis, EOKA were cowardly murderous thugs who only either killed from afar or from behind. There may well be justification for guerrilla tactics in a fight for freedom, but I believe to most decent people those tactics don’t ever include murdering women and children. Those who justify such deeds with some insane claim that children will grow up to become the enemy, and that the deaths of wives and sweethearts will strike terror into the hearts of the enemy, are quite clearly terrorists who are on the wrong side and who deserve to lose.
Do you not consider women and children “innocent people”", Yiannis?
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Ian , I can see that the Turkish propaganda has penetrated your logic!! Which bath tub murder , when did this horid event happen , who staged and photographed this atrocious event.
Mate you have a lot to learn about Cyprus. You most certainly know NOTHING about EOKA of 1955-59 and I doubt whether you know much about events that lead to the Turkish invasion.
Can I ask that you refer to Turkish propaganda and come up with the number of “massacred” T/Cs from 1968 to July 1974 when Turkey invaded to put an end to the ” massacre ” .
I hope your villa is not built on G/C land because come Tuesday the 19th Jan the British contingent of cheapskates will be feeling hot under the collar , it does not mean that others who purchased stolen land will be set free from their on going nightmares !
You say I’m biased and that you are not !!!Pull the other one mate , you are as biased as any mainland Turk living on my land.
Back to EOKA now , a group of freedom fighters with morals and discipline who took on the might of the British army , some 35 thousand troops were stationed in Cyprus during the liberation struggle. The battle of Britain was a noble act and the battle to get rid of Britain was also a noble act.
Did you know that more than 30 thousand Cypriots joined the British army during WW2 , including the ex-President of Cyprus Mr Clerides , they were all volunteers egged on by Britain who plastered the entire island with posters proclaiming ” FIGHTING FOR THE ALLIES YOU ARE FIGHTING FOR GREECE ” !!!
Did you also know that Britain offered Cyprus to Greece in 1915 if Greece would join the Balkans war , Greece declined the offer.
The mess created in Cyprus following the declaration of independence was as a direct result of political incompetence by the then British government and by their policies on divide and rule.
A bunch of corrupt politicians expense hungry greedy individuals , a bit like today’s lot really !!
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Yiannis, I refer you to the book commissioned and funded by the GC government, “The Cyprus Conspiracy”, photo #3 following p.126 (the one under the photo of Makarios and Grivas smiling together)…You haven’t heard of it, so automatically it must have been staged? I don’t think so.
Mate, I don’t know whether you’ve ever studied argument and fallacy, but it’s been long acknowledged that one who needs to descend to the level of emotional subjectivity has automatically lost any credibility in his argument.
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Page 224 , Oysters with the missing Pearls by Sevgul Uludag .
In response to Ians question whether I consider women and children innocent.Of course I do.
It appears that the extremists in TMT did not.
“On the 1st of May 1958 Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots celebrated the Labour Day together , but on that night the Progressive Turkish Education Club is attacked and its furniture burning…Now the newly established TMT is after the leadership of the joint trade union movement, their targets are those Turkish Cypriots working in PEO ( G/C trade Union ) or TEK (Turkish Education Club )
Soon the masked assassins attack: they have a list from which to chose and kill…First they try to kill Ahmet Sadi but his wife tries to shield him with her body and gets shot..Next is Fazil Onder…On the 24th of May1958 they come to kill him in his shop and start shooting..Fazil Onder is not killed and he starts chasing the assassin but another murderer runs behind him to stab him to death.
TMT is not satisfied with the death of Fazil Onder they also ban his funeral..
As the brother of Fazil Onder , Salih goes to bury him- only three persons are allowed to be present in his funeral-some people start throwing stones at the coffin.. They would not allow him to to bury his brother. Salih Onder takes his seven year old daughter and sits her on the coffin , shouting at those throwing stones:
Come and kill her as well ! Hade ! What are you waiting for ? ”
Much later.
” Bur TMT is not satisfied with that as well .They send news to his wife that if she ever visits the grave they will shoot her and her daughter ”
The purpose of posting the above as taken from the book by the T/C author Sevgul Uludag is to show to those that have been taken in by Turkish propaganda that the TMT , Grey Wolves , were determined , under instructions from Turkey to cast hatred and mistrust amongst the Cypriot people. TMT carried out many atrocities against their own people with one purpose only to sow the seeds of mistrust and hatred .
I strongly recommend those that comment on the Cyprus problem to read this book , in it there are atrocities committed by G/C extremists , by T/C extremists , horrendous events that took place as a result of hatred nurtured by extremists on both sides of the divide. They were no angels , the fanatics derived from either side , the innocents suffered , G/Cs and T/Cs .
As one who enjoys the respect of numerous T/Cs who consider me a true Cypriot , not a Greek but a Cypriot beg you to learn something about Cyprus and its people just as I have learnt much about Britain and its people , the kindest and most considerate people on this planet , people with so much history , traditions and pride. Also we have right here in Britain our own ” extremists” hooligans who attack emergency services , criminals who attack the old and defenceless , are we to consider all Brits to be hooligans ,murderers , of course not , any more that we can consider the T/Cs or G/Cs as murderers and fanatics.
Take the side of reason do not be duped by propaganda which has as its core centre the division permanently of Cyprus.
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You boys can debate the past, nothing you say will change it.
Atrocities were obviously committed on both sides. Hopefully
we all learn from it and focus on a better future. Perfection
is for heaven, lets do the best we can here on earth. Cyprus
north or south is not just for the Cypriots and if either
side thinks it is, then what are all their extended families
doing scatttered all over the world? Better to concentrate
on an amicable settlement for all who live on the island of
Cyprus.
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Yiannis, msg 69 was one in which I agreed with a lot of what you said. Some members of the EOKA, TMT and the British Army overstepped common decency and became murderers. They often had emotional reasons, e.g. when some British soldiers went after GCs as a result of the killing of Mrs. Catherine Cutliffe, but what they did was a crime. Unfortunately the history of Cyprus is full of unchecked crimes. Turkey in 1571/2 was doing what a lot of countries did in those savage times. The Catholic Inquisition was similarly slaughtering innocents. Very few countries and organisations with power were not abusing it in those times.
It would be a pity if a united Cyprus became history because of the past work of extremists and barbaric armies. For me, the question now is whether Turks, TCs and GCs are ready to start afresh?
Hi Yiannis,
Much better! But I’ll see your “Oysters With Missing Pearls” and raise you a “Genocide Files”…
Of course there were murdering extremists on both sides, and it’s comforting to note that you are able to concede that point. It may also be correct that there were no massacres in the 6 years prior to 1974.
But it wasn’t the Turks who were severely discriminating against the TCs and ghettoing and enclaving them, to the point where they were all in real peril, and it wasn’t Turkey who led the coup against Makarios.
Yiannis, I’m not as biassed as a Turk living on your land…that’s just emotive nonsense. When you use the word “propaganda”, all you can see is Turkey. Sorry, but that just isn’t correct.
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Ian , mes 72.
Enclaves were created as a result of fear from both sets of fanatics.
TMT ordered T/Cs to leave their houses , villages and towns and enter the enclaves. Those that refused became the victims of both EOKA B extremists and TMT fanatics.
Why do you think that the entire world has refused to recognize the Turkish creation of the “trnc” is it perhaps because the Turkish propaganda is not believed . Turkey submitted that their invasion of Cyprus was in accordance with her guarantor status as granted in the Zurich agreements , her continued presence and Turkification of the occupied parts is not in accordance with her obligations as a guarantor power.
Do remember that Turkey used the pretext of putting a stop on the on-going “massacre” that did not exist. SIX years before she ruthlessly invaded there was no conflict amongst the Cypriot people , in fact the only conflict was between the elected government of the RoC and the Greek Junta.
Is your villa built on G/C land Ian , or do you consider that since Turkey won the war it matters not who the recognized legal owner of the land is .On Tuesday the 19th of January the Orams will be made aware that it does indeed matter who legally owns the land that their villa is built on ! I shall be there nice and early to get a good seat !
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Hi Yiannis,
Like many other GCs, you are using the egregious error made by the EU in granting membership status to half an island to legitimise the position of the ROC, in effect to claim the moral high ground. This is fallacious.
My villa is built on land which was vacant, had no lemon or olive trees and was, I can only assume, formerly owned by a GC. It may surprise you to learn that I would be quite amenable to paying some compensation to him or his family, provided it was not a clearly outrageous demand.
I hope you have an enjoyable Tuesday, Yiannis, but I fear that the judgement will take the course of least obstruction, much as a stream of water flowing downhill does to avoid unpleasantness. I doubt anyone is going to be overjoyed at the outcome.
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Ian I can not believe that a seemingly mature and well educated individual would consider Cyprus’s entry into the EU AS PREPOSTEROUS !!!
The ENTIRE ISLAND OF CYPRUS IS A MEMBER OF THE EU NOT AS YOU ERRONEOUSLY SAY HALF OF THE ISLAND.
Check your information Ian , the RoC IS the only government recognized by the EU , UN , and all other nations .
Are you aware that the RoC was the ONLY legitimate nation prior to entry into the EU , and therefore all that the EU membership conferred on Cyprus was membership not legitimization !!
Ian you fail to understand a very basic concept mate , that is the “trnc” is NOT RECOGNIZED internationally , it is considered by ALL as a sovereign area of the RoC over which the RoC HAS NO JURISTICTION IN VIEW OF THE OCCUPYING TURKISH ARMY.
You say that your villa is built on land that might have belonged to G/Cs , were you aware of this at the time and if so why take a chance , you were purchasing dubious property in a part of the world that is under the occupation of a foreign country , not very wise in my opinion mate!
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Ian Edwards : “…the one under the photo of Makarios and Grivas smiling together”
And your point being what exactly? I’ve seen a photo of Chamberlain and Hitler smiling together but I wouldn’t use it to draw any conclusions about WWII!!!
Ian, you do post a lot of hollow rubbish on here…
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Hullo there Mr Real,
Are you back again?
It’s when you and your more rabid cohorts cease insulting me that I’ll know I’ve stopped being effective.
Happy New Year.
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Get Real , I too pondered over Ian’s mentioning the photograph of Makarios and Grivas , then I realized that this guy’s brain is controlled by Turkish propaganda and resisted the urge to ask the purpose of mentioning the photo.
Remember that Ian has earlier posted that since Turkey “WON” the war therefore the lands “won” are hers to do as she pleases , that means our Ian who bought his presumably G/C owned land has done nothing wrong and has nothing to fear , a bit like the Orams !!!!
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There was also the murder of Special Constantable G T KARBERRY and his pregnant wife in a mountain road ambush near Akanthou on 8 July 1956. So that’s the second women, and an unborn child, the EOKA murdered.
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/Most%20wanted/most%20wanted%20files/EOKA_Members_List_s.html
“I was allowed to move through the whole besieged Turkish sector. I was taken to Kumsal district …. into a green and white house …. The bathroom of this house was a blood-soaked shambles with a women and three small boys lying dead huddled together in the bath, and in an adjoining room an other dead woman”. (Photo of the children in the bath on the first page)
Daily Mail 29 December 1963″
http://www.tcn-cy.freeuk.com/Special2.htm
Hey Yiannis,
I simply mentioned the photo of Black Mac and Ghastly Grivas to help you locate the photo under it. You know, that photo of the murdered TC officer’s wife and children you didn’t know about. You DID ask me about it, remember?
I’m not entirely sure how you can call that “hollow rubbish”.
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Malcolm MES 80
I can not believe than an educated and intelligent soul such as you would fall for the nonsense of this Turkish propaganda . If you believe the bath murders you may as well believe the 270 mosques destroyed !!!
Any idea where abouts in Cyprus were these “destroyed” mosques ?
To the best of my knowledge each town had a mosque , and each mosque is still standing and in good order.
270 mosques means that every T/C village had at least 20 mosques !!!
Read up on Cyprus Malcolm , find out how many wholly T/C villages existed and how many mixed villages , presuming that each had just one mosque then we are missing a couple of hundred !!
Turkish propaganda is , to put it mildly , a load of rubbish, the Armenian genocide NEVER happened and in 1974 Turkey invaded Cyprus to put an end to the “genocide” of the T/Cs . No loss of life due to communal strife 6 years before the invasion !!
Malcolm it is time to put your financial interests on the back burner and be objective .
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Yiannis,
You have now proved quite conclusively that you have no credibility. You clearly are able to see one side only, and that is the one you wish to believe. When faced with evidence you simply turn a blind eye and gainsay it, which as I said demonstrates zero credibility.
That photo and story have appeared in many publications, and I’ve already directed you to just one of them, the book commissioned by Greece and the GC government, viz. “The Cyprus Conspiracy” by O’Malley and Craig.
Once again you show why it simply is not possible to debate this issue with GCs.
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Ian , I have always maintained that the extremists from both sides were responsible for all the hideous inhuman acts , you on the other hand have been brainwashed by your greed in believing the nonsense posted on Turkish sides.
Let me reiterate . Both sides had their extremists , EOKA B and TMT one and the same , vicious thugs who sold Cyprus down the river. Foreigners such as you driven by greed take the side of those that you believe your investment is safe.
Wake up man , read what I post. Both bloody sets of fanatics caused the conflict that brought so much suffering to the Cypriot people.
As for the absolute rubbish on the distraction of 270 mosques , what can I say , only a clueless person would absorb such nonsense.
What was may I ask the population of T/Cs up to 1974 ? Do you know how many T/C villages existed then and how many mixed villages ?
Do you know how many many villages in all are in Cyprus ? Of course you don’t you greedy Plonker !
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Gawd Yiannis, you’re losing it mate!
I never mentioned anything about 270 mosques! I simply answered your ridiculous statement about those ghastly bath murders of the wife and children of Major Nihat Ilhan, the chief medical officer with the Turkish army contingent.
Something you seem now to be ignoring.
Perhaps they too never happened…
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Yawnnis. Why do you have to punctuate every point you make with insults. Surely you must realise that to anyone who reads it
it comes over as a lost argument – even when sometimes it would
have validity without the insults. Now dont let that go to your
head because I dont think I afford much more wool.
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Ian , you are dead right it never happened. The 270 mosques destroyed is also part of that crappy Turkish propaganda , you believe one story you believe the other , and pigs do fly too !!
Now , anything I can do to assist in getting rid of your dodgy property , just let me know mate !
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