The Orams have lost their case. The verdict was as expected but the ramifications will take a long time to become clear. An in depth article will follow once the full facts of the decision becomes clear.
More information can also be found at the On The Island website.
Dominic Freeman on Kulaksiz 5 in North Cyprus – structural integrity of property in question
David Waters on Kulaksiz 5 in North Cyprus – structural integrity of property in question
Ian Edwards on Kulaksiz 5 in North Cyprus – structural integrity of property in question
polly on Kulaksiz 5 in North Cyprus – structural integrity of property in question
ptepike on Kulaksiz 5 in North Cyprus – structural integrity of property in question
BREAKING NEWS Orams lose UK appeal
Published on January 19, 2010
THE COURT of Appeal has handed down its judgment in the case of Apostolides v Orams. The Court of Appeal has decided in favour of Meletis Apostolides, a statement from his lawyers said.
The present appeal is final, it added, and a further appeal to the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom is not permitted.
The judgment provides that the Cyprus judgments be registered and enforced in the UK. The Cyprus Court had made a number of orders against David Orams and Linda Orams, regarding land in Lapithos belonging to Apostolides. In particular, the Cyprus Court ordered that the Orams should:
- Cease trespassing on the land belonging to Apostolides;
- Deliver up possession of the land to Apostolides;
- Pay ‘mesne profits’ (effectively, rent) to Apostolides in respect of the period of their occupation;
- Knock down the villa and fencing they had built on the land; and
- Pay certain sums in respect of Apostolides’s costs of the proceedings.
The Orams will also be ordered to pay the legal fees incurred by Apostolides, regarding the London and Luxembourg proceedings.
“This judgment has determined in a final way that the legal rights of displaced Cypriots against trespassers, as determined by the Courts of the Republic of Cyprus, can be enforced in the United Kingdom,” said the statement from lawyer Constantis Candounas.
“Mr. Apostolides feels totally satisfied that the European institutions have safeguarded his right to have his human rights to property enforced throughout the Union. He had placed his trust in British Justice and has never felt that this was misplaced.”
Candounas said the ruling is expected to act as a future deterrent for speculators in stolen Cypriot properties, as well as those willing to take small or bigger risks.
“The way is now open for all Greek Cypriots whose properties have been usurped by other EU nationals, to take legal action and enforce Cyprus judgments against such trespassers in the United Kingdom and other EU countries,” his statement said.
Here I am again even though not to debate this time,
I was told that there is a law firm in the north who, for a fee, provides legitimate owners of properties in the north with the names, addresses an in general information regarding the current so called “owners”.
Can someone give me the details of this law firm please?
Time to party
Kiri,
this is a wicked idea, the Turks will do anything for some extra dosh, so perhaps we could encourage some to hand over the info, after all what can the carpetbaggers do, they are a law unto themselves
God I can’t stop smiling.
Well done Mr A. We are so proud of you and thanks. Btw the C44 forum is down, I wonder why, poor soul.
perhaps Mr Channing is also living in disputed property, look out buster.
You little imp.
Knew you would miss us – information you request
Peter Pan
Never Ever Land
KKTC
Tel 0392 000 xxxx cuddle cuddle
Cyprus 44 is down again.
I wonder why?
Troodo.
The Christian club strikes again. Now let us see what Turkey will do. Something positive I hope.
Troodo.
The Orams, willingly and knowingly made themselves part of the Cyprus problem by taking advantage of a refugee’s demise for their personal gain, and in doing so they became an accessory to one of the many War Crimes that were committed by Turkey against the indigenous people of Cyprus… namely ETHNIC CLEANSING… by replacing the legal Greek Cypriot owners of their land and properties with illegal settlers from around the world including Britain.
Apart from the various restitutions that M.Apostolides has won in court, I would also like to see War Crimes charges filed against the Orams, and against every other Turkish accessory to this mass crime that resulted in the displacement of 185,000 Cypriots in July/August of 1974.
Tuesday 19 January 2010: Below is a statement from human rights group Embargoed! about today’s British Court of Appeal ruling on the case between Meletios Apostolides and David and Linda Orams.
“Embargoed! is outraged that the British Court of Appeal has chosen to bow down to the European Court of Justice verdict and find entirely in favour of the plaintiff Meletios Apostolides. There were various other avenues the British Court of Appeal could have followed, but this decision is the worst of all possible outcomes. The British Government has repeatedly failed to fulfil its obligation to the Turkish Cypriots as a Guarantor, and now the British justice system follows suit.
The ruling, which deftly avoided any mention of the island’s troubles during the 1960s, smacks of political bias and an attempt to cover up ongoing mistakes by the European Union in its handling of Cyprus. It admitted a divided island in 2004 and now only recognises Greek Cypriots and South Cyprus, while wantonly discriminating against Turkish Cypriots and other residents in North Cyprus.
This flawed verdict comes at the most critical stage in the negotiations between the two Cypriot leaders and may well deliver the “killer blow” for efforts to reunite the island. Public policy and the wider issues affecting the Cyprus conflict were relegated to second place by the British court, whose ruling will have extensive, tragic and totally unjust implications for thousands of property owners in the UK and elsewhere across the EU. It makes a mockery of claims by the British, European and Greek Cypriot authorities that they want to see a negotiated settlement in Cyprus; they have knowingly allowed a piecemeal approach to the Property Issue to dominate, where individual rights have superseded the overall needs of Cyprus.
It is also staggering that the presence of a Greek judge heading the ECJ panel was not an issue of concern for the Court of Appeal. This is akin to allowing Arsene Wenger to referee a match involving Arsenal.
The case will undoubtedly be a turning point in Cyprus affairs, wedging a deep and irreversible divide between the two sides. The judgment ignores the past and present suffering of the Turkish Cypriots and their inherent legal and political rights. There is no real parallel equitable remedy for Turkish Cypriots in the South – the message today from Britain and the rest of the EU is, it’s one rule if you are a Greek Cypriot, another if you are Turkish Cypriot. Where is the justice in this?
At this time, Embargoed! also extends its thoughts and support to David and Linda Orams, who have inadvertently been caught up in this political battle. Their dignified behaviour and determination throughout is an inspiration to us all.”
Well said Embargoed, I am ashamed to be British!
Get real.
You are a total hypercritic.
Troodo.
So, those on TCs’ land in the south should now be prepared to pay rent backdated up to 35 years? Plus the same deal the Orams got. Now that seems unfair to me but surely it would be discriminating against British EU citizens if GC EU citizens were not treated equally. What do you think?
Let’s not forget that there are a number of cases that are being examined by the ECHR which revolve around the issue of the Property commission dealing with GC claims over abandoned properties. If the ECHR finds that it is an acceptable mechanism, then it will be considered a suitable local remedy and thus no GC will be able to attempt such actions again without first applying to the commission.
“This flawed verdict comes at the most critical stage in the negotiations between the two Cypriot leaders and may well deliver the “killer blow” for efforts to reunite the island”
But why pretend you’re interested in a “reunited” island if you openly campaign for recognition of the illegally occupied territory? You should be laughing then if it’s the “killer blow”!
You just LOVE making total fools of yourselves don’t you?
Don’t worry guys the Great Turkish Army will protect your booty..
I Guess all we can do is to wait for Turkey to join the Eu so that the EU laws will apply on Turkey as well…
Please… Come and Join us!
we
need some facts here
How many TC cases are stalled in Republic of Cyprus courts?
Is itlegal to compulsorily purchase TC land by advertising in Greek in Greek Cypriot newspapers?
how many property cases are currently awaiting judgements in ECJ and percentages TC and GC?
how will this judgement be enforced and can it be at present?
if the Orams decide to demolish, will they be allowed to?
what will happen to the property commission here and all the applications by GCs?
how many British homeowners here have the vote?
Before anyone gets me back let me say I live in a wholly TC village on family land and I would like to see EVERYONE who lost out get justice but I do not feel that this is the right path and it will just make the lawyers richer, increase house sales to non EU citizens and result in more legal loopholes like property trusts. This is a political problem and this decision, coming during 2010 talks is a political turning of the screw. I hope the ECJ takes as much interest in Kosovan dispossessed home owners.
There seem to be some vitreolic comments here, which is a shame. There will be a lot of pain to come out of this decision, which can affect thousands of people, so there should be no rubbing of hands. The Orams should NEVER be accused of ‘War Crimes’, but maybe EOKA could be! And what of the Turkish Cypriots who currently occupy by far the larger part of Mr Apostolides land; and what is happening about compensation for the man who ‘owns’ the new Larnaca Airport Land; and what about the many properties in the south formerly owned by Turkish Cypriots? As to the number of TC’s in the land before, it matters little, and it would appear if one looks at history correctly, there was an effort not only to reduce that number even further, but ensure that they could never be part of a democratic process. As I understand it, that is why Turkey intervened. And as I have said elsewhere, I wonder how many of those who are currently ‘slanging off’ the Turkish Cypriots would actually be alive today had Turkey not come in. Lives were lost then, but even more would have been lost had they not brought a peace to the island. Not sure how old some of the folk are who write here, but just suppose their grandparents or parents had been killed in the ongoing skirmishes, they would not be here today. So, give thanks for the Turkish army who ensured you could be born.
Look for the good that has come out of the past 35 years, and maybe see that little good will come out of this decision against the Orams. They committed no crime – neither war, nor legal, but followed what was considered good and dependable advice.
I wish now I had bought the house I was offered in Tochni 20 years ago. That would have been interesting.
Prime Minister of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC), Dervis Eroglu, said on Tuesday 19th January 2010 that directing flood waters from the Greek Cypriot side to the TRNC’s regions of settlements was an inhuman behaviour.
The Turkish Cypriot backlash starting?
Marion , you are talking rubbish.
The T/C who owns Larnaca airport , are you in your right mind woman , this T/C owns 3% of the land , this 3% has been legally expropriated by the sovereign government of this island the RoC.
What the hell do you know about EOKA ? I tell you how much you know , bugger all !Turkey invaded Cyprus didn’t you know woman , this is what the UN and the entire international community says. What annoys me most is when totally ignorant of Cypriot history old age pensioners come up with rubbish like you do.
How many you ask would be alive if Turkey had not come in , you stupid woman Turkey murdered 6 thousand Cypriots and displaced more than 165 thousand Cypriots from their ancestral homes and you have the audacity to question how many would be alive if Turkey had not invaded ?
Cyprus 44 is the forum that allows stupidity to thrive by banning anyone that dares to challenge absurd statements , so far I know that this media does not .
Get your facts right pensioner and come back when your brain is fully charged !
Woman you have been caught with your knickers down , the Orams are the first , you could be second.
Malcolm Channing : “The Turkish Cypriot backlash starting?”
The Turkish Cypriot stupidity more like…
Marion : “The Orams should NEVER be accused of ‘War Crimes’, but maybe EOKA could be!”
Get your facts right! Aiding and abetting ETHNIC CLEANSING is a WAR CRIME!
The fat fools are VERY lucky Apostolides is a very nice and gentle guy, because if they had ME to deal with they’d be behind bars by now where they belong!
‘fat fools’, ‘stupid woman’ the EU is going to get you for all that prejudice. Very politically incorrect.
To Marion:
According to your ideas, Turkish troops came to Cyprus in order to prevent “mass killings” of Turkish Cypriots and to restore peace and order.
What are they doing 35 years after, since they have “restore peace and order” on the island? May be Ethnic Cleansing of both T/C and G/C?
As for the Orams, they did commit a various serious crime because they new that this property belong to Mr. Apostolides. Therefore they simply stole it at a very low price. If I go to London and I am offered by thieve a house at an exportidantly low price then I must enquire and find out why? There is no innosence on their behalf. They are and they have been found guilty. So they will pay.
There appears a great deal of ignorance in the above-comments. Turkish Cypriots were not great land owners, preferring to rent rather than buy. A large number of those who did own land in the free areas sold that land to the Turks in exchange for Greek-Cypriot stolen land. As in the UK, a claimant must come to court with clean hands. A Turkish Cypriot who has profited over the last 36 years by selling his land and receiving stolen land cannot go back to court to reclaim the land he sold. Rightly or wrongly most Turkish Cypriots who relocated to the occupied area are stuck there and in particular will be dependant on being re-housed on land legitimately put to one side to house them.
‘Embargoed’ is not a human rights group. It is largely comprised of ex-pats trying to legitimise there illegal acquisition of stolen refugee land. They are victims to their own greed. The Turkish-Cypriots realised that the Annan Plan and in deed any future settlement would provide for the return of some of the stolen land. Not wanting to end up with nothing they then proceeded to sell as much of the stolen land as they could to the ex-pats before it became worthless. The Orams have completed that task by ensuring it is worthless by their high profile fight against the legal owner of the land and through the use of the Prime Minister’s wife with the assistance of undisclosed Turkish funding.
are those your legal opinions, Andreas? Embargoed largely comprises of ex-pats? I assume you have access to the organisation’s membership list in order to establish that, or is that your opinion as a GC/Greek? I’m not trying to wind you up it’s just that so many comments here pretend to be facts and every now and then I like to challenge them, especially as you use the email address of a UK legal organisation I know well.
Thank you Andreas, you did not rant rave or become verbally abusive. I found your article interesting
and to a great degree factual. Of course I dont agree
with everything you say – I do however respect your right
to say it. You I could live next door to without fear.