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Pauline Read on Orams Ruling: “British Justice Fails the Orams” – ATCA
Below is a joint statement from ATCA in the UK, USA, Australia and TRNC about the British Court of Appeal ruling on the case between Meletios Apostilides and David & Linda Orams.
The true standards of the EU were once more highlighted by the decision of the British Court of Appeal (High Court) to find entirely in favour of the plaintiff Meletios Apostilides. Double standard is an understatement but no longer a surprise to Turkish Cypriots.
In effect, the Cyprus problem has been solved. The Greek Cypriots will no longer have to wait and seek recourse for remedy through politicians. They will simply take legal action against their counterpart and claim for their losses through the “appropriate judicial system”. This action simply extinguishes the need for an overall settlement and allows the floodgates to be open for litigation and ultimate recompense.
A verdict which is substantially flawed by the presence of a Greek judge heading the ECJ panel makes a mockery of the Law and the very essence of its core principles – equity and impartiality.
The ruling is ignorant of the historic occurrences of Cyprus, the realities of the island at present, and the need to remedy the property disputes of both Turkish and Greek Cypriots through a negotiated and comprehensive settlement. The Orams case ruling is legally absurd, because according to the ruling, up to 1 million people (in North and South Cyprus) are now regarded by EU Law as “trespassers”. In fact, every tourist landing at Larnaca Airport in South Cyprus may be regarded as “trespassers” because the airport was built on Turkish Cypriot land.
Turkish Cypriots also continue to seek legal redress but not one case has reached an equal level. This provides no incentive but equally the property issues on both sides of the divide should firmly remain in the hands of politicians and not lawyers or judges who in general do not know enough about the Cyprus problem.
Britain’s Guarantor status remains undeniably dormant once more as the British Expatriate community and indeed British Turkish Cypriots will start wondering when they will next be issued a writ and attend their own hearing.
This verdict has given no consideration to the public relations in the UK between Greek and Turkish Cypriots. It will no doubt blight the negotiation process further and ultimately divide the island – permanently!
As a Guarantor power, the British Government should have advised the court that accepting the ECJ ruling, at such a critical time, would have been wrong. Compensation can only come about after a permanent solution has been achieved not through interim legal recourse. Once again, thanks to the “good old reliable” British legal system, we can always count on it for real justice!
ATCA would like to extend its support to David & Linda Orams who have courageously fought this case throughout. ATCA will continue to support them and others in their fight for justice.
number of views: 841
Oh, not the Greek Judge rubbish again, give it a rest. There were 27 of them there and you cry about the greek judge??? It was noted and rubbished that he had no biasing effect. what utter idiots.
You want to be looking at the ECHR rulings when it is always ONLY the Turkish judge that is against findings against Turkey, err I wonder why.
If you want an example of the mockery of the law here is one for you. Turkey, the biggest violator of humand and democratic rights, with the highest number of resolutions and ECHR against her, guilty of mass war crimes and genocide, actual gets, as a non permanent member of the UN. Well, hello, the UN charter should have prevented such a sick move, who trusts the UN now. Now thats bias double standards corruption, and god damn stupidity. But there you go.
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Cetin Ramadan: “The ruling is ignorant of the historic occurrences of Cyprus”
Are you out of your minds? The last thing you needed was for the judges to also take into account all the atrocities you’ve committed against the indigenous Cypriots in the last 450 years!
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Get Real:
Selective history is alive in well in a deluded mind such as yours
Especially when you don’t have possession!
Enjoy
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You want to be looking at the ECHR rulings when it is always ONLY the Turkish judge that is against findings against Turkey, err I wonder why.
Yes, I wonder why too, stelios ioannou. If Turkey said black was black the EU would state it was white.
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If you want an example of the mockery of the law here is one for you. Turkey, the biggest violator of humand and democratic rights, with the highest number of resolutions and ECHR against her,
Yes stelios ioannou, I agree it is a mockery. With hundreds of malicious accusations from GC’s this result was inevitable.
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actual gets, as a non permanent member of the UN. Well, hello, the UN charter should have prevented such a sick move, who trusts the UN now.
Obviously stelios ioannou, the UN does not share your vindictive biases views.
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Oh, not the Greek Judge rubbish again, give it a rest. There were 27 of them there and you cry about the greek judge???
stelios ioannou. Only the EU would allow a Nazi to judge a Jew or a GC to judge a dispute in the TRNC.
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FAMAGUSTA GAZETTE 29.JAN.10
BREAKING NEWS
An application by David and Linda Orams to appeal the ruling of the British Court of Appeal in the Apostolides v Orams case has been dismissed.
Meletis Apostolides` lawyer Constantis Kandounas explained that in the United Kingdom the interested party must first be granted permission by the Court of Appeal in order to file an appeal.
The Court of Appeal ruled that a decision by a Cypriot court, in connection with claims relating to Greek Cypriot owned property in Cyprus’ northern Turkish occupied areas, must be executed.
The Cypriot court had ordered the Orams to pay compensation to Apostolides, demolish the holiday home they had built on his land in the Turkish occupied village of Lapithos, halt all intervention on the said property and deliver it to its legal owner.
http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/
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David and Linda Orams won their case in 2006 but an appeal was allowed. Could this be a case of allow an appeal until we get the right result – no surely not.
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Bit like the Irish having to vote on the Lisbon Treaty again
until they got it right. OR the promise of a vote on the same Treaty to the British
electorate and then reneged on by the current British Government.
E.U. democracy you can keep it. When they can balance their
accounts to the satisfaction of their accountants and then be signed off, I might – just might take them seriously.
E.U. corrupt corrupt corrupt
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Paragraphs 88 – 93 of the judgment deal with the issue of bias. Obviously some posters here believe they have a better knowledge of the law than The Court of Appeal
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Jerry, don’t be silly. The man would have had to be a saint, and I do not think so. He should have been removed or, if he were truly honest, he should have removed himself.
What was he doing in Cyprus within weeks of the court case, getting his instructions no doubt? That alone should have had alarm bells ringing. This should leave any right-thinking EU citizen with a very bad taste in their mouth.
A democracy? You don’t even have a vote for your leaders or President. Our President will be voted in by the majority of our citizens – that’s demockacy.
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Paragraphs 88 – 93 of the judgment deal with the issue of bias. Obviously some posters here believe they have a better knowledge of the law than The Court of Appeal and the silly judges.
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Jerry, don’t be silly. The man would have had to be a saint, and I do not think so. He should have been removed or, if he were truly honest, he should have removed himself.
What was he doing in Cyprus within weeks of the court case, getting his instructions no doubt? That alone should have had alarm bells ringing. This should leave any right-thinking EU citizen with a very bad taste in their mouth.
A democracy? You don’t even have a vote for your leaders or President. Our President will be voted in by the majority of our citizens – that’s demockacy.
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Like I said, read what the silly judges wrote in paras 88 – 93 0f the judgment notice before you comment again. Even Booth conceded in Court that there was no ACTUAL bias. Oram’s counsel argued that there was APPARENT bias – the judges disagreed.
I think it’s time for you too to return to the barracks.
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And when you Rollie Polly stop talking nonsense I might just take you ..with a pinch of salt !!
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Troodo:
Don’t worry about Jerry-atric! He believe he is “Mr Know it all” on the law – even tried to tell me that the Court Of Appeal on a case of ‘enforcement’ “established” the figures for the respective community percentages of the island between GCs and TCs!
He is totally delusional of his ability to comprehend basic English language let alone an understanding of the legalise and what a court can and cannot do!
Somehow, I get the feeling he reads into the judgement “his wishful thinking” and then creates a false premise for his delusional argument!
I even offered him to go and find a respected ROC legal eagle and get an opinion on Paragraph 22 – but he side steps that – as he seems to be of the opinion that he is the top of the tree of ROC legal experts – eat your heart out Constantis Candounas – Jerry-atric the legal eagle has landed
lol
He sits on the Internet – reads what some crank GC lawyer on some two-bit Cyprus forum who probably bought his qualification from elsewhere on the Internet and quotes him / her verbatum
Still, nevermind – at least it makes him feel important
Not!
I have not looked at his latest legal hassle with you – but given his earlier total lack of legal prowess it would not surprise me it was more diatribe from someone who has spent too much time wondering what his alleged land in the TRNC looks like and not enough tiem actually engaging his grey matter before typing the nonesense he posts here
My advise – just laugh at him – humour him…and then ignore him
If we play with some legalise – we could say there is sufficient circumstantial evidence for his ignorance of the law by his postings here “Res ipsa loquitur” – (the thing speaks for itself)
Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind
Enjoy
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Jerry:
The point of bias was made and the UK court rejected it up to that point you are correct.
However, if the position was reversed and a Turkish judge was heading a case which invlved a GC – you and your GC cohorts here would be shouting from the roof tops – especially if that Turkish judge had been honoured by the Plaintiffs country and wined and dined just before the case.
If the Greek juge had an ounce of commonsense he would have recused himself.
Just for you Jerry: “recusal – (law) the disqualification of a judge or jury by reason of prejudice or conflict of interest; a judge can be recused by objections of either party or judges can disqualify themselves”
But then the GC need every little help they can get inorder to have their narrative played out in the Western media. Having said that, even ‘winning’ the case perhaps with what could be said to be an ethically unacceptable move to have a Greek judge sitting as the head – you still have a judgement you cannot enforce.
Boy! You cheat, bend the rules, get in to the EU through the backdoor (which I knwo as GC you adore), chase after ex-pats, tourists and God knows who else – and after 35+ years of such action just exactly what have you achived?
SWEET FA
Enjoy
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Moover is obviously a better “Judge” than the Appeal Judges.
Moover, Troodo, back to the barracks boys or you’ll be charged with being AWOL.
PS Most lawyers know that when used in a legal context “judgment” is spelt without the “e”. For example in Case No: A2/2006/2114
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Jerry:
What’s the problem? Everytime you lose an argument you focus on typos and house keping
Tell me what is your work in the real world? A domestic engineer with aspirations to clean a lawyers office?
Seems like your education has let you down badly – shame all that progress that the ROC has apparently made hasn’t made an impact on you or your GC cohorts here!
Disect the judgement – read and re-read what each judge said – and how they said it – then look up and wonder why Mr A is still in the ROC – the villa is still on his alleged land and you are no further forward today than you were 35 years ago
In the end you will just be a lonely old person – with no possession of your alleged land in the TRNC – no hope of a legal career and moore importantly still lamenting what could have been…
The truth is sometimes stranger than fiction
Enjoy
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Jerry:
Oh! look…another typo…quick get the typo police
Enjoy
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Jerry:
For your legal education – when lawyers are interacting in the UK you are correct to point out the typo! However, you are not a lawyer – just a domestic engineer with aspirations of cleaning a lawyers office!
By the way in Australia, New Zealand, Canada – they spelling is interchangeable and in South Africa it is spelt with an ‘e’.
Tell me – how did you enjoy the BIG ‘E’ The Turkish army gave you GCs in 1974?
Was that spelt with a small ‘e’ or a BIG ‘E’.
Enjoy
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Moover : “Selective history is alive in well in a deluded mind such as yours
”
Why don’t you come to the CF and tell me all about this “selective history” you’re on about instead of hiding in a talkback and yapping from a distance?
Start a new thread in the CyProb section and go for your life…
Atta boy!
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It’s usual for lawyers to base their knowledge on facts, not to make wild guesses.
So for your information Moover: -
I am not a domestic engineer.
I know nothing of Russian brides.
I am not an office cleaner, nor do I aspire to be one.
I know what recusal means.
I know what “Res ipsa loquitur” means.
I have discussed several aspects of the recent case with Mr Canoudas (free of charge).
I am not a “Jerry – atric”, although I retired at the age of 45.
I am also at a loss to understand why a so-called lawyer (professional?) would resort to name calling and making puerile remarks on a forum such as this.
Back to the barracks. THAT’S AN ORDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jerry:
Don’t be curious
It’s a free world where I live 
And if I am wasting my time here – it’s becasue I choose to
What’s your rationale? Retarded at 45? I only say this because you insist on asking purile questions!
And what’s your purpose on this site? To engage with me? lol
So you met the infamous high street lawyer – not much of a legal brain if you ask me – made a real arse of himself at the LSE in 2009! He couldn’t ecplain what would happen if the enforcement was granted but frustrated! So much for the leagal eagle of the ROC
But I guess S**T sticks together
Name calling? C’est moi? If you didh it out get used to getting it back – I don’t suffer fools gladly – especially fools who ‘believe’ they know more than what they actually do…
And in case you have not noticed – it is par for this forum – your friends Yawnnniiisss, Kyriacos and JD are not short of a few transgressions –
and of course you are a saint – not 
Enjoy
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Get Real:
Is that the best you can do? Come to CypForum? Why? I quite like where I am…and I enjoy taking people like you apart when you believe you have ‘won’ a victory in the Orams case – you think you had just inherited the earth – the sad fact is it changes absolutely NOTHING on the ground!
Now I can argue that here or there or anywhere – why do you believe the reality will change? And whose hiding – I am here if you want to bring your reinforcements to battle on your behalf
lol
You are delusional if you think that winning a legal case changes the facts between TRNC and the ROC! Unless and until there is a POLITICAL SOLUTION you may as well be ‘Pi**ing in the wind’
You have nothing except a piece of paper that is worth even less than the brown stuff you churn out here
Enjoy
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Looner , when you say taking people apart are you referring perhaps to your Anatolian peasant boy taking you apart ?
Come on English Yob , time to come out !
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Yawn…Yawn…Yawnnniiisss:
Keep talking – I always yawn when I am interested lol
If I wanted to hear an A-hole speak I would have farted!
Thanks for proving me right about which part of the anatomy the GCs enjoy the most
You poor old sod…
You are about as eloquent in English as you sure about getting your ALLEGED land back through court action…poor at best
Enjoy
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Jerry:
I see you like to give ORDERS – something in your upbringing or are you just a typical GC delusional about the power you possess? It must be some kind of mental disorder because you are also delusional about the alleged you possess in the TRNC
Better run quick to the highly sophisticated health service – mental ward – you’ll know you are in the right place when you see Yawnnniiisss, JD and Kyriacos
Enjoy
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Moover, it looks like you’re jumping around like a rabbit on heat!
I thought you had something to teach us about “selective history” on Cyprus but instead you drivel on about the Orams when in fact there’s nothing else to say about the Orams, other than the fact that they are financially ruined and the criminal Turkish Cypriot prostitution of Greek Cypriot properties is well and truly screwed!
So you can continue yapping for as long as you like because as far as the RoC is concerned it is… mission accomplished!
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moover
and this is the last time I will do this for you:
“The phrase, “possession is nine tenths of the law”, is though to be an ancient concept from English Common Law but it may be older. It implies that one who is in possession of property is most likely the rightful owner and can be assumed to be the rightful owner outside of a court’s jurisdiction. The one who is in possession of property has a stronger claim than someone who merely says it belongs to them. However, it is not a law and ownership can always be challenged in court. It may also imply that any rightful owner of property has the right to control that property without regard for anyone else’s interference.”
As anyone can tell you, for the above to have any kind of meaning it needs to be enforced (at some point) in a court of law under a recognised state. The “trnc” is of course is not a valid state and as a result does not have courts with any kind of valid juristiction.
To the contrary, EU, ROC and British courts are recognised by the all (civilised) states (apart from you of course). These courts have decided that person in possesion, in this case, DOES NOT have ANY rights. In order words you have LOST this case.
so instead of througing around meaningless arguments and telling us that the Cyprus issue will be solved within a political agreement (duh) why dont you tell us what do you suggest the Orams should do next and where (oh where) what with the trnc will do next…?
You my friend have to accept the fact that you were born to the race of thieves (albeit good ones). A race that over the last 1000 years of existance has done not much other than loot and plunder the works of others.
We unfortunately have to live next to you people. Personally I would feel more comfortable Cyprus boardering Somalia than Turkey, at least they have a reason to steal….
What we dont have to do is pay to educate you and get you out of the deep shit-hole you call anatolia. If anything western Turks can act half-way civil. And THEY (your compatriots) DONT LIKE YOU. In fact if they could do away with you they would…
Pls understand this: NOBODY LIKES YOU. Take a tour in Europe and ask.
So when you decide to stop being a thieving monkey then you can talk about ethics and morality…
BYE
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judgement or judgment (noun) – the decision of a judge in a court of law
Source CHAMBERS COMPACT DICTIONARY (New Edition)
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JD:
Given your somewhat limited understanding of both the law and the realities on the gorund you could be excused for your incoherent rant. I know, everyone has the right to do something stupid you seem to abuse that privilege.
First and foremost: POSSESSION IS AND ALWAYS BE 9/10THS OF THE LAW.
Now I will try to explain this to you in simple language. This may prove to be an impossible task but what the heck, I’m feeling charitable. I use this phrase NOT as an essence of what you call ‘established law’ i.e. the national or supranational legal systems but in the more broader sense of the Laws of War in the context of international law which anyone who knows anything about it will tell you is simply politics in a legal language of a kind. When one party has ‘control’ or ‘possession’ if you like, unlike you have either the capacity or the means to take that land back – they have the possession and in terms of the laws of war – they are in control. Look at Israel’s occupation and control of Palestine. As long as you have the ‘might’ and no credible threat to that might – you possess the land and property under your control – it is your law that prevails. POSSESSION IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN 9/10THS OF THE LAW.
I teased you GCs with the notion of ‘adverse possession’ which you simply did not or could not comprehend. You seem to assume – wrongly, that when there is a situation of war followed by ‘occupation’ that national and supra national laws still apply. I regret all of the international law doctrines prove you singularly wrong. I also assume the fact that it has taken you several days to comeback means you did some research on the concept of ‘squater’s rights’ – hence your ignorant posting here
Now if you could engage those two brain cells of yours you should be able to work out what I have been saying here over the last couple of weeks. POSSESSION IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE 9/10THS OF THE LAW. Since you GC, nor the EU can or are willing to take on Turkey’s control of the TRNC – you are practically helpless with your ‘legal’ judegments as they are practically unenforceable! In such an instance your victory against the Oramses is as hollow as all the other legal victories you claim.
In the end, there will ONLY be a POLITICAL solution and if you believe that in such a settlement the GCs will get back all of their ‘alleged’ land and property you are at best living in clud cookoo land. The GCs have never negotiated in good faith over 35 years and have always had the goal of land and property above that of peace, reconciliation and security. That is the reason why you have failed for 35 years to change the facts on the ground and will continue to fail
Secondly, If you have understood the above (I have my doubts) you would understand that the EU / UK or any other courts judgements are meaningless unless they had a mechanism of enforcement. The only issue that the ROC has is to advocate more isolation and more sanctions. However, not only the EU but also the UK specifically and the USA are opposed to further sanctions. That bhas left the GC to play the EU card vis-vis Turkey’s entry to the EU. The problem for the GCs is that Turkey is using the EU membership issue to deal with its internal political issues. Whether it gains entry or not is not a priority as the GCs assume. Further Turkey’s strategic position in terms of the Middle East in general and the corridor for energy in particular makes it very important for the EU as well as the USA. Turkey is also part of NATO. In the end, none of the ‘big’ nations care too much about the ROC or the GCs. In the bigger picture the role of Turkey is fundamental.
Thirdly, given the above what do you think will happen to the TRNC? Do you think you and your greedy GCs will get their alleged land and property back anytime soon? Do you think that Turkey will let the TRNC be gobbled up by greedy GCs and displace 10′s of thousands of TCs from the homes in Girne, Lefkosa or Magusa and open to more violence and possible genocide by the GCs(yes, I believe that the top prize for GCs is an island free of TCs)? My money is on an emphatic ‘NO’. So tell me my ignorant GC poster – what do you think will happen? The TRNC will simply look at other avenues to continue its development. The EU is NOT the be all end of of economic opportunities. It may well look East to its roots. It may well look North to Turkey and Russia. It could look to North Africa. All of these are countries with greater potential for development in the next 25-30 years than the EU. Don’t think the sly, conniving GCs who wormed their way into the EU through the back door (a sexual innuendo which is culturally well suited to you)will be able to change the facts on the ground with legal judgements! As for the Oramses, they are well taken care of. If you think the UK courts will take action against them for ‘contempt of court’ I think you will once again be proved wrong. If they have taken ‘reasonable steps’ to comply with the judgement -I doubt if the UK courts would take it further – under the doctrine of ‘frustration’. If the TRNC refuses to demolish the villa and gives MR A a chance to go via the IPC – the courts will, in all probabilty let the matter rest! So where will you greedy GCs go after that? Will Mr A have his land in Lapta? Will he get the villa demolished? I think not! POSSESSION IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN 9/10THS OF THE LAW!
Finally, this is not a beauty contest or a popularity contest. If it were and you were the GC representative I have no doubt you would lose – because the only thing more ugly than your appearance is your attitude to others of the human race. So much for the craddle of civilisation! This is about realpolitik. Something you would need to get your two brain cells acquainted with before you make irrelevant and poitless arguments. If you carry on in this ignorant and pathetic manner even in another 35 years you’ll be waving your EU and UK judgements and the world would have moved on
I hope that now you have had a chance to be educated you will take a good look in the mirror and then promptly go to the toilet and throw up! Because if you look on the outside like how you come over from the inside – you must be one ugly GC.
Now say thank you that this “peasant” has eductaed you and then go and do what you are good at – getting in to the back door of other GCs and calling it civilisation
Enjoy
P.S. Now having educated you about the meaning and implications of ‘Possession is 9/10ths of the law’ maybe, just maybe you will have a rethink on your rather sick, greedy and nonsensical attitude to the TRNC and Turkey.
Further, you can make as many assumptions as you like about me, my origins and my interests. The only thing that is clear is that I am a realist who deals with the facts on the ground and not a greedy bugger whose only interest is material with little or no concern for peace and reconciliation.
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Get Real:
Mission accomplished?
Now just when is Mr A coming to Lapta? Is the villa demolished?
Ummm? I guess not?
Typical GCs self-delusion.
When YOU get to Lapta and take possession of your ALLEGED land – then I would concede mission accomplished.
Until then, as hard as it is for your to grasp the only thing you have are pieces of paper – not worth the ink that appears on it!
As for giving you a lesson in history – why should I have to do what your ROC education (brain washing) system failed to do – i.e. educate you?
If you were twice as intelligent as you claim to be, you’d still be an idiot
Go fly a kite – maybe that is as close as you will ever get to TRNC property and land
Enjoy
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LOL
What a demented loon you are!
Your argument is that the legal possesion of property after a war has occured (which ofcourse this not the case in CY, there was never a state of war declared, Turkey does not have the decency) is with the occupying force, so long as noone else can take in back by force? this is really your argunment?
You wrote all that to tell me that what one takes by force, they can keep as long as noone else can take it from them? So under the law if you can take it, it’s your! is this a turkish law? lol
It certainly didnt come into effect with the Orams case. Why?
Every country in the world refuses to agree with you Looner. Every country you mentioned (and their courts) has at one time or another called for Turkey to take its troops and go home. You have no legal case. You never did.
stopp being such a thick headed fat turkish pig. Dont feel bad, you live to steal since you cannot produce. Dont be ashamed of what you are. And just because you learned how to read and write, it still doesnt make you any better than what your ancestors are: Fat ugly moguls who like fat assesed women and then pretend they are muslim.
So eat drink and live in your own shit. Just dont tell me that you are normal….
Cyprus is and always will belong to its people and one way or another, we will prevail. We have gone through much much worse over the last 3000 years. I think we can handle a few mongols….
lots of love
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Moover – you do realise that John Dobrowski – drum roll
trumpets (doing whatever they do) none other than
Y A W N N IIII S S
what a disappointment………………………………
bummer – sorry cant say that he’ll get excited…..
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Moover, inch by inch, foot by foot, the great Cypriot horde is fast approaching and all you can do is suck on an egg!
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So Unreal you are a secret Turkofile.
Horde ‘a group of nomads’ (16c: from Turkish ordu camp)
source – Chambers Compact Dictionary New Edition
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polly: ”So Unreal you are a secret Turkofile”
It’s embarrassing enough you had to lookup such a simple word, but getting a wrong definition for it is disastrous!
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Get Real:
Bring it on! Let’s see what the GCs have got
My guess as is always with the GC they are all mouth and arse and no intellect 
Just look at the postings from Yawnnniiisss. JD, Jerry, and of course yourself! Call your postings intellctual, clever or pertinent – I think not!
If you believe after nealy 35 years that you will come and take the TRNC brick by brick – you simply forget that the ROC is populated by cowards ‘prick by prick’
LOL
I don’t think there are any medications for being “honesty impaired”, but that’s something you are going to have to own up to – lol
)
Let’s face it what you have you got after 35 years – I would guess the sum of the intellects of you + JD + Jerry + Yawnnniiisss = A BIG FAT ZERO
Now keep up the good work – you never know sometime in the future the Turks may even come after you in the ROC
Enjoy
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JD:
When you attempt to do research you should first engage your brain if you can find it!
For someone who believes he a clever dick – I believe you got confused – it should simply be a dick!
I think your understanding of world politics and realpolitik is like your capacity to reason and write coherently – a BIG FAT ZERO
So what do you think has happened for the last 35 years? Have you possessed your alleged land in the TRNC? I think not! Has any of your cases resulted in the TRNC enforcing the ROC Kangaroo court verdicts – I guess not! So exactly what is it that the TC have prevented you from possessing – your alleged land and property? Now, I wonder how they did that?
When you go to you grave – the way you are carrying it seems likely to come sooner than later – seems that you already have senility taking hold of whatever white matter exists between your two ears – you will remember just ione thing – that despite all your protestations you never actually possessed what you allege is your land and property!
So take that and put it in your GC pipe and smoke it!
You haven’t had possession for 35 years of your alleged land – you haven’t got it today and unless you negotiate in good faith (something GC find difficult to do) you will not possess it in the future.
POSSESSION IS 9/10THS OF THE LAW AND YOU HAVE A BIG FAT ZERO IN TERMS OF POSSESSION!
Now “brain box of the ROC” exactly which part of that is difficult for you to comprehend?
Enjoy
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Unreal
Chambers call themselves the Authority on English Today.
I just thought it amusing that you use a word with Turkish origins.
So shoot me (no you would enjoy that too much). Especially as
you love your TC brothers so much.. Of course I also say this
with love….
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Moover
Dont all GC males tell their females an inch is a foot?
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Get Real:
Inch by inch the only thing you are achieving is what you GC love – sodomising your chances of ever possessing what you allege is your land and property.
Day by day for 35+ years – the TRNC has lived in peace and security – and the sad aprt for you – is that over the same period all you ever achieved is total frustration.
Now if your leaders had some real vision and negotiated in good faith (Something GC find hard to do at the best of times with each other let alone the TRNC / Turkey) the result may have been different – but alas – people deserve the governments they elect
LOL
and what have you got in terms of POSSESSION…A BIG FAT NOTHING!
POSSESSION HAS BEEN, IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE 9/10THS OF THE LAW – AND HOW MUCH DO YOU POSSESS OF THE TRNC? A BIG FAT NOTHING!
Enjoy
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Polly:
You said: “Dont all GC males tell their females an inch is a foot”?
I thought the GC males said that to other GC males – isn’t that what the GC call culture and civilisation in the ROC?
I would say ENJOY – but somehow it doesn’t quite sound right – does it?
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Moover: “Call your postings intellctual, clever or pertinent – I think not!”
You’d have to learn how to spell “intellectual” first!
Inch by inch, foot by foot… the natural selection process of Cyprus can only be delayed but it can never be stopped…
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JD:
You said:
“Cyprus is and always will belong to its people and one way or another, we will prevail. We have gone through much much worse over the last 3000 years. I think we can handle a few mongols…”
You are beginning to make sense…must be time to inrease my medication!
That’s better!
Now, is this statement of yours the preface to a book you are writing titled “A GC delusional fantasy”?
First understand the words history and fantasy are not the same. I know it’s difficult for you but try.
Secondly, Cyprus does belong to its people – that’s why the TCs have possession of the TRNC and you have the possession of the ROC. If you allege what the TCs possess is yours – come and get it!
And if you haven’t been able to claim it in 35+ years I guess waiting another 2,965 years may just be your best bet!
POSSESSION IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN 9/10THS OF THE LAW! GET USED TO IT!
Enjoy
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Get Real:
That’s my point – you definitely ‘think not’
LOL
Enjoy
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Get Real:
If the GC followed natural selection giving their penchant of GC men for other GC men – I think you’ll find – extinction is highly probable
Spelling is not a mark of intellect – reasoning is!
Now just how do you reason that GC men F**k*** GC men will lead to a selection process where the GC will survive?
Somehow it is that kind of logic that caused the collapse of the so called Greek civilisation – and guess what – it will also be the demise of you in Cyprus.
Tell me Mr Brian Box of the ROC – just how many inches of land have you gained in 35 years? If we extrapolate that over the next 3000 years what will we have – STILL A BIG FAT NOTHING!
POSSESSION IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE 9/10THS OF THE LAW – IF IT WASN’T YOU’D HAVE YOUR ALLEGED LAND AND PROPERTY BY NOW – BUT YOU HAVEN’T!
So go play with marbles on a busy highway!
Enjoy
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Looner , your pre occupation and fascination of man’s rear anatomy lets me to believe that the inkling I had concerning your Anatolian boy might be right. Your favourite phrases , you know the ones about finders keeper etc etc , and of course the most poignantly stupid , the one about ” alleged ” deeds , marriage certificates , IDs , passports , in fact everything for your inadequate little …brain is alleged , let me tell you Looner there is nothing alleged about you being an English hooligan , uncouth , unsophisticated , as crude as they come and no doubt a total AH.
Enjoy plonker !!
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Yawn…Yawn…Yawnnniiisss:
If you are a GC as you claim you SHOULD know what all the world knows that Greeks love To F each other in the A**e – that is male on male!
Just take a look at your history!
My facination is with the analogy with your culture and traditions obviously such subtle nuance passes you by
Let me put it bluntly so even you the intellectual of the GC nation can comprehend.
Your behaviour over the last 35 years in the negotiating process has only achieved you getting shafted where you enjoy it the most!
Now is that clear enough for you or do you want some links and pictures?
POSSESSION IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE 9/10THS OF THE LAW – AND YOU YAWNNNIIISSS DO NOT HAVE POSSESSION – JUST A BIG FAT NOTHING
Enjoy
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Such audacity , such absolute “pollycock ” !!(The lls are there to signify the connection that no doubt is relevant !!)
“”"ATCA would like to extend its support to David & Linda Orams who have courageously fought this case throughout. ATCA will continue to support them and others in their fight for justice.”"”
So ATCA will support any cheapskate who purchased dodgy land to fight for justice !! Precisely , as the Looner says finders keepers , rob me at gun point , throw me out of my house along comes a cheapskate and obtains possession of my property and since possession according to a certain individual AH , IS 9/10TH OF THE LAW , the cheapskate gets ownership of my property and ATCA will support him in his fight to legalise his dodgy purchase.
What a bunch of loonies !
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Yawn…Yawn…Yawnnniiisss:
See I am a kind soul. Just for you – as it seems at your age the memory has somewhat faded:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/homosexuality/
There are 1000′s of links on google but I don’t want to get you aroused / excited at your age – you never know you might just keel over and …
Enjoy
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Yawn…Yawn…Yawnnniiisss:
Things could be very different if the GC negotiate in good faith but it seems your leaders are even more myopic than you – and that takes some beating!
Until the GC can come to the table in good faith – you may as well be ‘pi**ing in the wind’ in terms of your alleged land and property
Enjoy
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What level of good faith you Plonker.
Do you know what Turkey wants, here look at this AH from the Turkish paper
This is the Turkish position today:
- Rotating Presidency to be on a 3:2 ratio.
Thats 3 years GC followed by 2 years TC
Both President and VP have right of veto
- Federal Cabinet made of 7GC’s and 5TC’s
- 2 separate Flight Information Regions on the island
- Turkish nationals wanting to reside on the island will enjoy the four basic freedoms.
- separate jurisdictions over coast and EEZ.
- Legislature: The proposal underlined that while representation in the senate will be on a communal basis, at the House of Representatives representation will be on the basis of “internal citizenship status.” Thus, a Greek Cypriot who might reside in the Turkish Cypriot constituent state will not be able to be elected either to the Senate or the House from the Turkish Cypriot contingencies.
There is more but I’ll begin with these ones.
The GC side has moved from all its former positions and accepted a rotating presidency for the 1st time on a ratio of 4 years GC 2 years TC. The response was for the Turkish side to move away from the rotating presidency at first and move to a council presidency. (thus deleting any chance of a strong central power in the federation much like the Annan Plan) The Turkish side has now “returned to the rotating presidency with one small amendment, a ratio of 3:2.
COnclusion:
The red line cross by the President for the sake of goodwill with rotating presidency is returned with an amended ratio from 4:2 to 3:2.
The GC side then proceeded to offer up the concession of 50,000 settlers remaining. Thats 10,000 more than the Annan Plan did.
Result: The Turkish side demanded that ALL Turkish citizens should have the right to live, work, stay and move about freely in Cyprus.
Conclusion we say 50,000, Turkey responds with 70 million.”"
Plonker , don’t make moronic statements you are boring us all with your repetitive nonsense !
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yiannis savvides wrote: The Turkish side demanded that ALL Turkish citizens should have the right to live, work, stay and move about freely in Cyprus
YS, you quote the above as if giving these rights to Turks is an abomination. Once they are in the EU they’ll eventually get these rights anyway. What’s your problem with this?
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His problem, Malcolm, like with most of his GC cronies, is that he is, unfortunately, a racist bigot.
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Ian:
To call Yawn…Yawn…Yawnnniiisss a bigot is being very, very kind!
He has tried outside of his ‘name calling’ to be representative of the GCs.
The only point which the GCs want and which he hasn’t mentioned is that their greatest prize would be a TC free Cyprus.
For that he knows that he has to tackle 60,000 Turkish troops and therein lies his problem! Since he cannot get POSSESSION OF HIS ALLEGED LAND / PROPERTY then the next best thing is to pretend that the failure of the talks is all about Turkey.
After 35 years they still have not learnt – unless they negotiate in good faith ain’t nothing going to change – and no matter how many judgments the obtain they cannot enforce it.
GCs are to put it simply – bad losers
Enjoy
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Do I get the idea that our Greek friend(s) do not know what being a member of the EU really means? Once we are no longer “divided” everyone here (Turkish Cupriots and British – who are already EU cits) become EU citizens and have full rights to move freely here and into and out of any other EU country. So how can he be moaning about the freedom of the Turks to move freely? Perhaps I put that badly, but Im sure you know what I mean!!
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Malcolm , my problem is that Turkey in intend on annexing Cyprus by the back door !
Turkey if and when she joins Europe , and I fully support her entry , will have to respect international and more importantly European laws. At the moment she is not in Europe and to demand that her 70 million citizens can have freedom to enter Cyprus , as if she owned the island , is contrary to any international laws governing entry into a sovereign state.
Turkey by her intransigence is ensuring that the status quo continues.
Let me assure you once again, that I consider all Cypriot citizens to be equal under the law and that all Cypriot citizens have the right of abode and movement anywhere on the island.
Where do you see my racism Malcolm.
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Mamachina , Turkish citizens are NOT in Europe , yet !!
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yiannis savvides wrote: Turkish citizens are NOT in Europe , yet !!
YS, if you avoid answering questions which try to work out whether you are a racist bigot, then you leave yourself open to such accusations. I’ll ask you again – would you have a problem with all Turks having the 4 rights afforded to all EU citizens?
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Yawnnniiisss:
Your problem is quite simple.
You don’t understand the problem; you don’t have a solution and if you ever get to meet God ask him why he cheated you out of a brain
You can never have what you allege is your land and property unless and until you negotiate in good faith and are prepared to make sacrifices and no, having you on the GC is not a sacrifice
Enjoy
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Yawnnniiisss:
What do you know about the ‘free movement of citizens in the EU’?
The general principle is and will always be that EU citizens are free to move as they wish within the EU.
The exceptions made for Romania and Bulgaria – are exactly that – exceptions with a time limit for exclusion only on the basis of work – IT DOES NOT STOP ROMANIANS OR BULGARIANS FROM COMING TO COUNTRIES LIKE GERMANY, FRANCE OR EVEN THE UK – THEY HAVE JUST A CURTAILMENT ON THEIR ‘RIGHT’ TO WORK FOR A SPECIFIED TIME.IF THEY HAD MONEY TO OPEN A BUSINESS THEY ARE FREE TO GO TO ANY EU COUNTRY.
So if, and it is a very big IF – Turkey joins the EU – you cannot stop them from coming to Cyprus except maybe for a limited period vis-avis work but if they opened a business here – there would be nothing Cyprus could do about it!
Seems like as always the GCs want it both ways. First to use the EU to get judgments enforce dodgy judgments from the ROC then they want to bend the rules if Turkey is admitted to stop them coming to Cyprus!
I know the GC like most things in life BOTH ways – but this is a bit much even for you
GC are just a pimple in the EU and I cannot see if Turkey is allowed in that you could stop them coming to Cyprus – period 
Enjoy
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Moover: “…how do you reason that GC men F**k*** GC men”
Moover: “…Greeks love To F each other in the A**e – that is male on male!”
Malcolm, either your “porn spam filtering” is a total flop or someone spat the dummy!
Which do you think it is?
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