Bill Cobbett on 
Malcolm Channing on 
yiannis savvides on 
Ian Edwards on 
Troodo on 
G!R on 
polly on 
Dominic Freeman on Orams villa compulsorily purchased by TRNC government
From Cyprus44, quoting Frank & Joan’s website:
“I received a phone call to tell me that the TRNC government had compulsory purchased the Orams villa. One can only assume that this means that as they now own it application will have to now be made to the Independent Property Commission to demolish. It has already been said that the government is to pay all the costs incurred.
Hopefully more information will come out on this soon.”
Perhaps the next announcement will be that the Orams are bankrupt and Mr A’s legal fees are not going to be paid?
Source
Frank & Joan
Orams villa compulsorily purchased by TRNC government
number of views: 1870 
I know it’s the Immoveable Property Commission, it’s a quote!
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stelios ioannou wrote: What silly comments
a) I doubt the property fetched much because it is subject to a court case
b) a half a million house with a £550,000 mortgage perhaps? A lot of people in the UK are in negative equity.
Add it up, it doesn’t make the £1.5m legal costs the Orams are meant to pay, especially if the TC government are considering not paying the legal fees.
Perhaps you hadn’t thought
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mastakounas evaggelos wrote:If you were the Orams
I would put my UK house in trust to my children who would of course let me live there. I would empty all my accounts in the UK, convert them to gold and place them in a Swiss Bank safety box – one that the US hasn’t forced to reveal client details. I would accept the TRNCs gracious offer of a free house on pre-1974 non-GC land.
When Mr A lost the case in 2006 and had to pay them £675,000 that was the time for them to disappear assets.
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does this mean that if demolishing the property goes ahead, we are going to see in the forseeable future goats grazing on the said land, only if the trnc give permission to do so, or is to become a tourist shrine for visitors, give a thought to all those poor sods in the south who are struggling with the GC government trying to get their title deeds from greedy land owners who wont part with them, despite a eu ruling telling the GC government to get their fingers out, and people wonder why there’s a slump in the housing market in the south.
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robert gatt wrote:if demolishing the property goes ahead
It won’t be demolished, it’ll be used by a TC who Mr A can’t touch.
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malcolm, its a bit late for that.
but the issue, of course, is not what happpens to the orams, its not even what happens to other eu citizens that curren lives on GC land.
we dont give rats ass about them.
It’s about GC land not being sold to every Tom & Harry for peanuts. And that has now been to a large extend been prevented.
So if this is managed right, we will see a few more high profile cases put through the RoC courts. Its doubtful that the ROC will encourage citizens to go after expats en mass. On the other hand it cannot stop them….
there has been little press coverage on what is happening in the courts. the roc controls the info on what happens int the courts and will not make it easy for journalists to find out what is going on
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So if this is managed right, we will see a few more high profile cases put through the RoC courts.
If there are it will be Brits, you don’t dare touch the TC’s
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YS, apparently all the TCs in the north are now saying forget the money, come and stay in the property the GCs don’t mind us having. I bet you feel better now
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the T/Cs we don’t mind living on our lands , it is the cheapskates that we can not stomach !
yiannis savvides
I don’t suppose it has anything to do with a Turkish Cypriot judge, a Greek judge, and an independent judge, or other similar small obstacles.
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You do realise Robert that if you buy in the south during the slump
and at a more realisctic price and you happen NOT to be a GC you will be called a cheapskate or carpetbagger.
The GCs are totally unable to get their heads around words like
market forces, location, lack of amenities, lack of facilitieand lack of infrastructure – all they see is YOU GOT IT TOO CHEAPLY FOR
THEIR LIKING!!!!
G
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You do realise Robert that if you buy in the south during the slump
and at a more realistic price and you happen NOT to be a GC you will be called a cheapskate or carpetbagger.
The GCs are totally unable to get their heads around words like
market forces, location, lack of amenities, lack of facilitieand lack of infrastructure – all they see is YOU GOT IT TOO CHEAPLY FOR
THEIR LIKING!!!!
What is amazing is that they thought they were ready to play with the big boys in the EU.
I say this with love
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Masta
I hope they confiscate all the houses in ‘hock illegally to the banks’ then sell them back to the rightful owners the ex pats for
£1 each – what a smack in the eye for the banks and YOU. A girly
can dream
I say this with love.
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POST 3796
New heading: listen again, again again again again…..and yawn
I say this with love
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Yiannis, gawd, why do I bother…?
Yiannis, do you think that if you continue to repeat your standard rant of totally biassed nonsense, it will at some point gain the credibility you think should attach to all things GC?
Mate, it won’t! People have woken up! There is simply too much evidence of what was being perpetrated on the TCs for it to be camouflaged by GC rhetoric now. You asked me for evidence about the savagery committed by EOKA and I gave you the reference for that appalling bathtub slaughter, but you ignored it. The most you could bring yourself to say was that it was “regrettable”
Regrettable! Give me strength! Both Malcolm and I have asked you on a couple of occasions how it is possible for you to hate us with such passion, we who paid sums like $300,000 in my case for a villa near Kyrenia, and yet consider that the ghastly crimes committed by EOKA and EOKA B were merely “regrettable”.
It doesn’t say a lot for your humanity, Yiannis.
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Sorry, Yiannis, but your comment about you condemning all crimes against innocent people, NOTWITSTANDING the photo of the bathtub slaughter being “taken by KMT and used as evidence in their propaganda” is supposed to imply what, exactly? That the slaughter didn’t happen? Or that because the photo was taken by the KMT the murders somehow become less of a horror, or even justified?
You see, Yiannis, this is what I mean by GC spin and bias. That hideous bathtub slaughter was a part of the “noble struggle” of the EOKA murderers that occurred in 1963, Yiannis, eight years before EOKA B even began!
And this, Yiannis…”I do not support the propaganda that you do that ONLY the G/Cs committed crimes against the other side.” Where, exactly, have you ever read that I have made that claim? Nowhere, mate, because I certainly don’t believe that one! What I and everyone else here who supports the TCs claim is that, ON BALANCE, there was a vicious campaign of violence and discrimination aimed at the eradication of the TCs and their culture from Cyprus. It began as Enosis, continued as the Akritas Plan and has evolved into a 35-year-long campaign of propaganda, spin and denial.
And once again you have ignored my last question, Yiannis.
I can understand why…
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now now barren kyri – put your dolly back in the pram!!
What a diatribe of a reply to a poor single brain celled girly.
still that puts me ahead of you in the brain cell department.
Now ‘little boy’ my legs do look rather fetching in Polly Peck
nylons – but – unforunately I have no connection to Mr. Nadir.
To your other facile comments – sticks and stones sonny, sticks and stones…..
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Under the title Does the Orams building plot belongs to Evkaf?, Turkish Cypriot daily Haberdar newspaper (04.02.10) said that the building plot on which David and Linda Orams have built a villa in occupied Lapithos is not Greek Cypriot property. According to the paper, the building plot may be a part of plot of one thousand donums [Tr. Note: A land measure of 1000 square meters], which belongs to the Evkaf Religious Foundation. Citing reliable information, Haberdar writes that the Turkish Cypriot President, Mehmet Ali Talat is aware of the fact that the plot in occupied Lapithos belongs to Evkaf Religious Foundation and that he carried out a meeting at the presidency, with persons who are related with the issue. The paper writes also that when the issue was discussed at his office, Mr Talat clarified that even if the building plot belongs to Evkaf, the decision regarding the Orams case will not be affected.
Speaking to Haberdar on the issue, the director of the Evkaf Religious Foundation, Mustafa Kemal Kaymakamzade, stated that the Orams are also aware of the research taking place and which will reveal whether the building plot belongs or not to Evkaf. He also stated that after the research is completed, the necessary statements will be made. Mr Kaymakamzade also said that prior to 1974 many building plots which belonged to Evkaf in Lapithos were given to Greek Cypriots during the British colonial rule in Cyprus.
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stelios ioannou wrote:your board is as racists as the other one
SI, you don’t get it do you. Freedom is allowing people to choose. The readers, not me and not NCFP, decide to vote. If there is racism it’s because the readers are racist and not me or NCFP. The readers, both TC and GC, are expressing there views, one person one vote. That’s democratic isn’t it? In a democratic government laws get not to be passed because votes decide it. If you don’t get enough votes to keep your comments open perhaps it is because the 150 visitors from the south who visited this site yesterday didn’t like what you wrote.
Personally, I would not be unhappy if all comments could not be reached unless you clicked a link.
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Boy, you have to wonder at the quality of intellect on this board at times, too!
Stelios, are you not capable of clicking on a link? Or do you simply not understand what to do?
And how do you make the quantum leap from the readers not enjoying overly-abusive and insulting posts, to “this is a racist board”???
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Now I know i’ve lost it – racist because they have to click
to acces c**p the rest of us dont want to see. duh…..
Gordon Bennett – what next.
I say this with love
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Ian Edwards, this is just for you. A little bit of education for your one-sided view from Nancy Crawshaw’s book. These events took place in 1958 whilst Cyprus was still under British rule and Turkish Cypriots police patrolled the streets.
“On the night of 7 June shortly after 10 p.m. a bomb explosion outside the Turkish Press Office in Nicosia set off the worst outbreak of racial strife which the island had seen since British rule. The explosion served as a time signal and an excuse for Turkish rioters to invade the Greek sector of the old town. The Greeks sounded the alarm by pealing the church bells; in the violent clashes which took place, two Greeks were killed and much Greek property was ransacked or destroyed by fire. Shortly before midnight the troops were called out to assist the police to restore order and to man the ‘Mason-Dixon’ Line, the rough boundary separating the Greek and Turkish sectors. The Old City was placed under curfew but the fighting went on until 3 a.m. The original explosion did little material damage. And circumstantial evidence strongly pointed to the fact that the bomb was of Turkish origin. This, however, did not deter Turkey from making a formal protest to Britain the next day alleging that the Cyprus administration had failed to give the Turkish minority adequate protection.
The crisis reached a climax on 12 June when eight Greeks were massacred in a cornfield near the Turkish village of Geunyeli. Communal feeling had been running high in the neighbouring villages.”
Read on here: -
http://web.archive.org/web/20071018100640/cyprus-conflict.net/communal_strife+-+‘58.htm
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Jerry wrote:These events took place in 1958
perhaps a little context might help:
“The assault upon the army reached it peak in the summer and autumn of 1958, August saw Sergeant Hammond shot dead in Ledra Street in Nicosia, the ‘Murder Mile’, while walking his two-year old son. The murder of an Army wives in October and the wounded of another was too much for the Army. In less than two hours, the Army arrested over a hundred Cypriots and took them to detention centers for questioning. Some of the Cypriots died as a result of the bad feeling roused in the Army from the assaults. An estimated 256 people were injured in the round-up. The EOKA’s cause was severely damaged.”
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/war.html
Some would say that the British were more to blame than TCs,and were using TCs to get revenge for these events? It is so easy to generalise by saying TCs did this or GCs did that when as we know, it was extremists on both sides doing the killing. Did the bathtub murders happen, who did them? There was never a court case and therefore never a conviction, so everyone can have their theory. Conspiracy theorists talk of non-Cypriot secret service operatives… the mind boggles when it comes to 50 year old events.
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I don’t disagree with your post Malcolm but my point was that the first inter-communal violence was NOT started by the GCs. Denktash is actually on record as boasting that his people bombed their own Press office in order to blame the other side. Some of the events of 1963/4 could be seen as revenge on the TC community who, protected by their own police and sometimes by the British troops, were perceived by GCs as having the upper hand whilst Cyprus was a colony.
The Cyprus Problem is much more complex than some of the simpletons here would believe, they could make a start by studying the conflict history between Greece, Turkey and Cyprus over the last 400 years and particularly the 20th century.
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Jerry,
I’m unsure just what point you’re attempting to make here…I remember asking you once before whether you thought it in any way worthwhile trading massacres, and from memory I think you said no. So to focus on this five-day period in isolation would seem quite pointless.
If your point is that the TCs and Turks did awful things as well as the GCs and Greeks, you won’t get any argument from me. But as Malcolm has just highlighted, for a debate to be valid and rational you really need context. The only real context is the events of the whole sad period in totality, perhaps 20 years of it.
And as I’ve said before, ON BALANCE the evidence demonstrates that it was the GCs, with heavy support from Greece, who intended to remove the complete TC presence from the island, one way or another. There simply was no equality of blame here.
You can believe in conspiracies if you choose, and it seems quite certain that the US and UK involvement was significant and self-interested. But to me, all the intricacies of conspiracy don’t come anywhere near the real, hard, bottom-line fact, which is that the two cultures are simply too different in all significant respects, and have too much history between them, to be able to co-exist peacefully and cooperatively.
That’s why I’m certain there will be no agreement, and the partition will remain and become formalised.
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Sorry Yiannis, you’re not fooling anyone here bar yourself with that codswallop…”the nonsense that we did not get on together…”!!
You really ought to try to view the problem through BOTH eyes, mate.
“There was nothing undemocratic about the overwhelming majority of the Cypriot people (the GCs, that is) wanting to chart their own course.” Nothing at all, Yiannis. The only minor problem was in the vicious, discriminatory way they tried to go about it!
And are you ever going to attempt to answer my last question in message 3808, asked again in 3817?
I’ll understand if you aren’t.
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No Ian, the only real context is the events of the whole sad period in totality, as you put it, must take account of events OUTSIDE THE ISLAND OF CYPRUS in the preceding years. The TCs had seen Turks kicked out of/exchanged from Crete. The GCs had seen the Greeks of Imvros and Tenedos kicked out their homes and more recently the GCs had seen what Turkey did to the Greeks of Istanbul in 1955.
The Ottomans dominated Greek Cypriots for 300 years and when they eventually got rid of the last colonial master they resented the fact that the descendants of the Ottomans were gifted disproportionate power. At that time they sought the security that ENOSIS would bring, they believed it would protect them from Turkey. The TCs wanted Turkey to protect them; Kuchuk wanted the island returned to Turkey. http://web.archive.org/web/20071018100504/cyprus-conflict.net/Kucuk-1954.htm
Both sides wanted different things, people like you automatically side with the under dog without investigating the true history. Your assertion that the GCs wanted to remove the TCs from Cyprus should be seen in the context of population expulsions and exchanges during the first half of the twentieth century.
With regard to Yiannis’s mention of both sides getting on, don’t confuse the differences between the politicians and with those of the ordinary Cypriot. Many TCs did not even speak Turkish. Cypriots actually, you may be surprised to learn, share the same gene pool. Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot dialects have many common words, I’m sure Yiannis can enlighten you.If you really want to dig into the Cypriot social history check out “Linobambakoi”
-
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I realise now barren Kyri you are to be pitied not blamed.
I apologise for having a go at you because I know I am better
than that. I really and truly advise you seek help urgently
before you hurt yourself’ I shall pray for you as although it took me a while to recognise it, yours is a cry for help.
I think thew medical term for your condition is multiple
personality disorder and
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continuation of post 3867
I think the medical term is multiple personality disorder and I would advise fellow posters not to antagonise any of you, it will only excerbate your condition,. You all have enough problems
without our help.
I say this with love.
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Jerry, good post.
I actually have read something of the longer-term history of the area, but as with all history down the ages, it merely chronicles things that have happened and over which we now have absolutely no control. It’s often been said that the only thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history. I agree. That’s why I’m a strong advocate of leaving history where it belongs, in the past, and getting on with living in the present.
Jerry, I completely understand why the GCs of 50 years ago wanted Enosis, and I concede that were I one of them, I’d probably have been right in the thick of it as well. But all the context in the world doesn’t make it right. It’s all very well saying now that, in hindsight, it was a bad decision, but it happened. The GCs WERE trying to remove all TC influence from Cyprus, and to claim now that it was quite democratic and therefore just to do so simply runs roughshod over the rights of the Turkish CYPRIOTS who also claimed Cyprus as their homeland.
I’m afraid the words “true history” have become a classic oxymoron.
I appreciate the sentiments behind your last paragraph, and can only say it’s a pity there wasn’t a lot more of that togetherness around 50 years ago. The way of the world is that zeitgeists are always changing, evolving into quite different attitudes, and perhaps it’s happening again here. One hopes.
I see that Yiannis refuses to acknowledge my repeated question to him about relative hatreds. Without in any way implying you share his personal venom, would you care to venture an opinion about it?
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OK Yiannis, I can see that you will never attempt to answer my question correctly. You simply fall back on your normal, standard line of biassed abuse. But how you can honestly use words like “zero morality, scurrilous, brainless hooligans, scum and brainless twits” to describe us, and yet nothing but “regrettable” to describe the EOKA and EOKA B atrocities is quite beyond logic.
By the way, you’re tripping over yourself trying to get as many insults out as you can…”who salaciously attack everything that is the RoC FOR ONE REASON ONLY”…that reason, I guess, has to be that we are all too interested in sex!
You could be right, mate…
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Yiannis, if there are many more like you then we are indeed fortunate then that the RoC does not have an Army to arrest us and is bankrupt, just like Greece. But you attitude explains exactly why your property market has gone for good and why your tourists have gone for good. Your politicians seem to have mislaid the EU handouts they have had so far so there won’t be many more of those coming. You will soon have the Sovereign Territories back as well because they will soon be strategically redundant to us and we can’t wait to get out and move to existing Turkish bases. Take a look at the map Cyprus needs Turkey, Turkey does not need Cyprus. People are buying property in the TRNC because they don’t want to live next door you. Wake up man, we are not the ones with the real problem.
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The Truth Hurts wrote:What is the point of it all?
Actually, TTH, the truth does hurt and some people are reading and considering the points made. I, like any human being, stops listening when attacked, even if I am wrong.
These are the arguable points I accept:
1 – Brits living on GC property are trespassing (along with 1m people a year in the north and 100,000s people in south)
2 – Some TCs/GCs/Turks did horrible things.
3 – some people will never forgive these things (perhaps rightly so)
4 – the current round of Cyprus Talks will fail
5 – most people will probably not get their property back but under the right circumstances should – unfortunately those circumstances will probably never occur
Could go on but I’m personally into trying to find solutions not debating problems. NCFP’s articles are just a reflection of what is in the media but not what I’d like to publish personally.
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Malcolm, I’d love to find some sort of middle-road solution too, preferably one that didn’t cost me my life-savings villa. As there was no home on “our” land, not even an olive or lemon grove, the original GC owner couldn’t be asking for his house back, or squillions in compensation. I’d be happy to pay a reasonable sum, even though I maintain it should be the TR who should be coughing up.
But the GCs, at least those who post regularly here, are so filled with hate for us that they just can’t see straight, and I doubt they would even be interested in a “reasonable” solution.
I’d love to be proved wrong…
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Ian Edwards wrote: I’d love to be proved wrong…
I get the feeling that those who insult us here believe they’re trying to get their country back, just like in 1878, 1915 and 1960, but the trouble is they can only see that working if it is populated by clones; people just like themselves… and yet they don’t seem to realise that their worse enemy is themselves and not the “foreigners.”
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OPEN LETTER TO ALL GC EX-PAT-HATERS, LIKE GET REAL, OH DEAR, YIANNIS, KYRI, MASTA…, JERRY AND STELIOU:
Guys, I’m getting weary of the continual, boring, abusive, hate-filled diatribes you post here in the guise of debate. The claim you seem to thrive on, the one you never tire of hurling at us, is that we “stole your home”.
OK, instead of you hurling general insults and abuse in a scatter-gun approach to dialogue, let’s get specific. Why don’t you all, those of you who really do believe you have genuine grievances, come clean with details? I mean, name exactly where the home you claim has been stolen really is. Tell us its exact location…village, street, number.
If you do this, I will personally go to each location and examine it for condition and occupancy. I will then report my findings on this forum.
In my humble opinion, guys, it’s time to put up or shut up!
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Well there you have it Ian
A well intentioned offer met with the usual response.
No further comment needed.
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Some of you seem to be hiding from the truth though, Masta.
The truth about whether you actually have a home in the TRNC to complain about…
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Masta.
Am I understanding you correctly, you dont care who lives on
GC land, just that it has been sold to every Tom and Harry for
Peanuts. Are you actually saying that if Tom and Harry paid
what you consider a fair price, then it would be alright? You really do not know what Tom or Harry paid, so how do you know
if was a fair price, taking into account, area, facilities, infrastructure amentities – all the things an agent would consider
when pricing a property.
I am referring to your post 3781 – I am opening up a sensible
debate based on what you wrote – no more no less, so please
respond accordingly.
I say this with love
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polly wrote:I am opening up a sensible debate based on what you wrote
If you want a live chat you can use the DISCUSS NOW button at the bottom of every article. Just invite another reader to join you at a particular time and then see what happens
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I wasnt addressing you Stelios.
I am no-ones bitch. If it gives you a thrill to think otherwise
do not let me spoil your fun. I seem to be only female posting
and I can understand why – so far your verbal abuse far outweighs anything I have said or done – but hey bring it on, I wont be
intimidated by you bullies. When I do try to engage you reasonably you panic and revert back to type. I guess it must be in the genes.
I say this with love
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Stelios, Polly is correct – you are quite foul-mouthed and way too abusive. Your disgraceful language does you no credit.
Please, if you are able, provide me with ONE quote from ANY of my posts that demonstrates that my mouth is “representative of the gutter”!
And while you’re at it, please try to tell me how I can provide you with names if you don’t tell me where your properties are located…
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Stelios gets his kicks out of abusing non-GCs. S/he reminds me of 1950/60s racists in London who went around in gangs singling out immigrants. In the end there was a backlash and riots. Cyprus’ history from 1960-74 seems to have been like that. He will come back with the same old opinions, time after time, and will never change them. He will try to get you to respond to the abuse because that is all s/he wants. Ian and Polly you are talking to an anti-solution GC who wants revenge and not peace. Click the dislike button if that’s how you feel.
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Just put yourselves in the shoes of a GC for one minute. We were forced from our property and for the past 35 years we have been in dispute with those who now claim to govern the “trnc”. We believe they have taken double their “share” of Cypurs and we want a fair solution to the problem. Along with every country in the world, the UN and the EU (Turkey excepted) we do not recognise the state in the north, it was created illegally by armed force. The outsiders that are moving onto our property are in our view recognising and supporting the illegal state. Along with the immigrants the carpetbaggers are making the Cyprus problem more complex and more difficult to solve, that is why your presence is resented.
As for your kind offer Ian, I’ll take you up on it. My father built his house at a place called Trigazi. It’s on the coast road about 2 miles? west of Bogazi not far from the junction that leads to Tricomo. The house was built for his retirement and family holidays in 1970. My wife, myself and my two year old son enjoyed one holiday there in 1972, my father planned to live there when he retired a couple of years later. I know that in 1990 a retired TC was living there. You may know that the Annan Plan proposed that improved GC properties in TC hands could be kept so in anticipation many GC houses were improved and vacant plots built on. In 2004 the house was redecorated and modernised but it has not been enlarged, then advertised for sale for about £150,000. We do not know who lives in it now. My father died in 2007, the property is currently being legally transferred to my name at the Land Registry in the ROC.
If Malcom will e-mail me I will send him a recent photo of the house.
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Jerry wrote: You may know that the Annan Plan proposed that improved GC properties in TC hands could be kept so in anticipation many GC houses were improved and vacant plots built on. In 2004 the house was redecorated and modernised but it has not been enlarged, then advertised for sale for about £150,000.
Jerry, what you have just written explains a lot. The surge of sales to Brits started around 2003/2004. I can remember vague statements from TCs which confirmed what you have just said: “if you build on this plot before April 2004 and leave the transfer of the title deed until after we accept the Annan Plan, your property will be safe.” Many TCs improved GC property to get better prices from the Brits and there was a property boom reflecting the one in the UK. It was only when GCs surprised TCs by voting against the plan that the penny dropped that TCs would no longer be able to own GC property and therefore could no legally complete the purchase. They just forgot to tell the Brits. The TRNC government then stopped issuing TRNC deeds and no one could work out why.
If you would like to upload the image you can add it to a comment. I hope you and Ian know where you are going on this, it’s has potential to upset “the authorities” – I like it!!!
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Jerry, the reasons behind your first paragraph have been debated to death by now, and I doubt anyone’s mind is going to be changed by anything that is posted here.
To my mind, however, there is simply no excuse for the vile language and sentiments that have been howled at us on this and other sites by GC extremists, no matter how “wronged” they may think they have been. The garbage I’ve seen over the past couple of weeks says little for the culture that fancies itself as the “cradle of civilisation”…
Your last paragraph is interesting, and I suggest that, along with any photos you send Malcolm, you could include the Google Earth coordinates, as your directions are a bit too vague to locate it accurately.
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Malcolm, I am unable to upload here, I’ve tried but it does not work for me. Rather than diagnose the problem I can send it to you by e-mail if you contact me. As to the defunct Annan Plan, I thought it was common knowledge that the building boom was a consequence of it – so much for the claim that nothing was gained from it.
Ian, with the photo the house is easy to find, I’ll give more details via Malcolm
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OK Jerry, but can you tie it down a bit more? Like, is it on the landward or seaward side of the coast road, and how far is it from the turn-off to Tricomo?
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Malcolm, could you email it to me as soon as you get it? We are flying out there tomorrow morning.
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Ian, just checked and nothing has arrived yet.
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Ian, the image and further directions are on the way
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Just trying out the add image function. Times article Christmas Eve 1963
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Ian, the subject may have been debated to death but now you have seen my house perhaps you can appreciate how personal this is. That is MY house, bought and paid for and passed on to ME by my late father. My father, like many British GCs, did not and would not ask for help from the ROC after 1974. He already had a home in the UK and knew that thousands of Cypriots had a more urgent claim for accommodation. This is why you see varying figures of 160,000 – 200,000 GC displaced persons – quite a few were UK based.
I appreciate your interest in this matter, I don’t expect you to provide me with the occupiers name but I’m curious as to what they call the place now and his/her origins. Is the occupier British, mainland Turkish or Turkish Cypriot or other? An up to date photo would be nice too, I have not seen it since 2002 before it was “done up” prior to its “sale”
Thanks in anticipation, Jerry.
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Interesting report from the Times Malcolm. It reminds me of the story I was once told about what triggered the fighting in 1963. I do not know how true this is nor can I remember who told me.
Apparently it was usual for the police from each side to take over the others duties during religious holidays. A TC prostitute was picked up/arrested by the police, she told them that during the course of her “travels” she learned that the TC police were going to seize all the weapons from the armouries whilst their GC colleagues were enjoying a Christmas break. That was the spark that ignited the conflict – so I was told. It does tie in, to some extent, with your report though.
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It was a random choice
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Yes, I have the picture and directions now, Jerry, and yes, it does make it more personal.
For obvious reasons I would not publish any names I come across, but I will try to find the house, and try to see the owners. I will also photograph it and get back to you later.
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Stelios, you really are pathetic in your self-contradiction.
Jerry isn’t seeking my help, he’s seeking for some understanding.
What could I possibly tip the owners (your word) off about that they don’t already know?
Clearly, you’re the one who should be seeking help.
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Guess what- Next to the hidden comments is a CLICK HERE TO SEE
notice – and it works.
You couldnt make it up could you.
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yiannis savvides wrote:I shall contact my fellow Cyprus and ask that they refrain from NCFREE
YS, it was you who told us that Cyprus Forum was great. I took these rules from them:
* Personal attacks are not allowed – Don’t attack others. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others’ points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully without insult and personal attack.
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* Do not cross-post – If you have something to post and you’re not sure which board it belongs in, do not post it in more than one board. If the administrators or moderators think it would fit better in another location, it will be moved there. Duplicate threads only serve to create confusion.
* Use images only when they are required to support your post – Do not use images in your signature. Do not add images to your posts without any significant reason. Do not post the same image repeatedly.
* English is the only language allowed – You may post phrases or words in other languages only if an accurate translation is provided within the same post.
* The administrators and moderators have the final word – If you have a problem or a complaint, direct it to the administrator and/or moderators, not to the boards. They will then take the appropriate actions.
If you notice any rule violations in our forum please contact the administrator or one of the moderators.
Posts that violate any of the rules will be deleted. Members that repeatedly violate these rules will be banned.
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/rules.html
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I can, hand on heart say that I personally have never seen a
post on NCFP where anyone has said that GCs are evil. I do not
believe they are and I do not believe anyone else who posts here
thinks they are. I also note that any abuse has been retaliatory
and I can think of no occasion when it was instigated by the
Northern side posters. That said, it would be churlish to think
that we didnt give back in kind.
We do not hate you – we do not always understand you but that is all part of the human condition.
I, for one will miss Yiannis if he stops posting but he is a big
boy and must make his own decision.
On this occasion I really do say this with love.
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I guess CF doesn’t have any moderators and the lunatics have since taken over the asylum?
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stelios ioannou wrote:Yiannis, he said he was banned.
SI, We do not ban people we operate a more open policy than Cyprus Forum but we do try to stop abuse. We also allow the readers to reduce comments to a link if the majority don’t like them. Obviously there are very few GCs voting otherwise comments would not be closed to access by link only.
You don’t like us, you don’t like NCFP and yet we still let you post your comments Stelios. You got a problem with that policy?
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Stelios, Yes of course I have seen retaliatory comments, thats
human nature – what I said was I have seen no posts saying they
hate GCs or think they are evil. I have seen many posts telling US
we hate you and telling US we think you are evil and that is not
the same thing, obviously.
one last try – We do not hate you – we do not think
you are evil.
Hatred harms only one person – the one doing the hating.
I say this with love
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Malcolm , what you have to comprehend is that it is your actions in purchasing our stolen lands in a part of our country that Turkey occupies .
I’m not going to repeat how English Im in many respects not least the fact as mentioned previously a large number of family members are English or at least half and half.
I do not think it is abusive to condemn your actions and liken them to the actions of hooligans , after all all of you knew of the political situation in Cyprus as as the Orams found out to their regret , purchasing dodgy property was not a good idea.
What really annoys me about you and the rest is that in order to defend tour frivolous actions you have nurtured a hatred for the people who can separate you from your ALLEGED properties.
Why on earth should I respect anyone that entered into a dodgy transaction with those that deprived me of my property ?
The amount of venomous nonsense that appears on this forum and directed at the G/Cs you seem to disregard.
Malcolm , I,m certain that if were to meet we would both behave in a civilized fashion but the minute that I would learn that you bought stolen goods then I shall get as far away from you as possible.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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yiannis savvides wrote:I do not think it is abusive to condemn your actions and liken them to the actions of hooligans
If you want to direct your anger at Turkey, I think we can understand. If you want to direct your anger against TCs who sold GC property after 2004 when the Annan Plan failed, we can understand. If you want to direct your anger towards TCs who sold GC property whilst thinking that a TC vote for the Annan Plan would succeed, OK fair enough. If you want to direct your anger towards people you know without a doubt have YOUR land then I think we can understand why you are angry.
But, and I can talk only for myself, nearly 10 years ago I bought a field from a TC policeman who showed me documents in Turkish which I was told by a local solicitor proved he owned the field. He told me he had exchanged land in the south for it and a GC was living on his land. The deeds had a Turkish word on them which meant equivalent and I was told that it meant exchange. I did not finish building on the land until just before the referendum on the Annan Plan. All the TCs were saying that at last it would be sorted etc… I sold everything in the UK to move out here because at the time I was seriously ill and decided to stop work.
I now know that I was not being told the truth. Now if that is your field and you want to do a Mr. A on me then I’ll use everything in my power to stop you. Now if you want your land back and will pay me for the villa then I’m listening because I would be looking to get the TC policeman’s land in the south to build on using the money you’ll give me. If a GC is living on it then you’ll have to advise me. The TC policemen has carefully avoided the problem I am facing and could even sell his land in the south as well so he gets double the money. Now that would make me angry because I’ve come to believe that land in the south is mine if I have to give back the GC’s land and I would be very angry but not at TCs and GCs but at you/the GC owner for leaving me penniless and the TC policeman for ripping me off. That would be just two people.
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Malcolm let say that I’m sorry to hear about your health and I do hope that you have made a full recovery .
Let me also say how elated I’m to have been vindicated by your comments , in that had you ant everyone else had known then what you know now , it is doubtful that you have entered into “transactions” involving land that without a shadow of a doubt did not belong to the “seller ” , you were naive and accepted the word of the man you “bought ” from.
Malcolm the point that I have consistently pursued is that how on earth any one with one iota of brain can possibly consider purchasing dubious property in a part of Cyprus that the entire international community , as you well know , considers the RoC as the sole sovereign power which clearly means that any ” legal” deeds issued by the occupying regime , as in Orams case , are null and void , illegal because the sovereign power has not sanctioned the issue of those deeds , in short any deeds that have been issued by the puppet state are worthless , not worth the paper they were written on, the Orams will vouch for that.
I do not take the average T/C to task , moving into G/C property was a necessary act in order to have a roof over their heads , similarly applicable to the G/C refugees who were allocated T/C houses .
It seems to me that although you live in the occupied parts you have no desire to delve deeper into the ” administration ” procedures enacted and wholly governed by the T/A .
You as well as others often refer to Mr Talat as the President !!!
What president , who on earth recognizes him as a PRESIDENT apart from the creators of the title and , sorry about that , the British birdbrained cheapskates !
Hot debate. What do you think?
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So what’s new BK? Now that is not a post I would censor because that’s how you feel. I personally believe you are so twisted by what has happened to you that you’ll never be able to forgive and in fact would want to do to others exactly what they did to you. You’re just like them and you’ll get exactly what you deserve, as we will of course.
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You are right. No one should currently buy in the north unless they are willing to risk everything. The Russians won’t give a damn however and they won’t be letting any GC have THEIR PROPERTY if it means losing a single cent.
I belong to an group which has a President, it’s the title of someone who presides over the group. It is a “self-styled” title.
Now to get back to my point, have you got a plan where I don’t end up penniless? The only reason I’m not on your side is because you are not there to help me. At this point I don’t care how right you are as the Immovable Property Commission or an Annan type Plan is currently the only way out I have. If you want to talk about injustice then talk about the German ship that in 1914 sank the boat carrying uninsured (against war damage) stock for my great-grandfather’s shops. He lost all the money that generations before him had passed on to him. He died a broken man. Did the Germans give him back his stock after the war? No, they just rearmed again and bombed London businesses into oblivion.
Can you get that GC occupied TC property in the south back for me so I can give my property back to its owner? Or is it as I believe it is? Unless there is a political solution then nothing fair will ever happen.
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Malcolm,
Wrong !!! I can forgive. In fact I have done so to a great extend. On the other hand forgiving does not mean tolerating anyone taking the piss and this is what this website, your articles and your posts are all about.
Having said that you said something towards the right direction:
“….At this point I don’t care how right you are……”.
This is what I have been saying all along. You just do not give a damn about what is right and what is wrong. Had you admitted that and refrained from the hypocritical nonsense of your (not personally…the websites) articles and your posts then I would also be able to show my forgiving side. Do not forget that when I first came here my intentions were different !
I am sorry about your grandfathers loss (and I am not being sarcastic. I mean it). However, I cannot recall me saying that I expected to get my grandfather’s 1974 crop back. It is the “shops” I am talking about which are still “under occupation”. I guess you were lucky that the Germans did not steal his shops (houses, land etc) and subsequently sold them to my grandfather for a fraction of what they were worth. If this happened then I would be the moderator of your website and you would be Baron Malcolm ! Cool ! On the other hand perhaps you would not care as loosing your homes, shops and in general property to the Germans would be according to all of you normal, expected, fair, conventional, just and so on!
Something tells me that it is not the same. At the end of the day a GC lost his house. It was not an English man, or an American ! You will tell me that I am wrong but am I? Just think about something….were you shocked about 911? Were you equally as shocked when Bagdad (or Lebanon, or Belgrade etc etc etc) were bombed? You know very very well that I know the answer
Nevertheless Baron Kyri loves you all
Make love, not war,
Baron Kyri
Hot debate. What do you think?
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subhuman scum of the earth – No of course that isnt insulting.
It makes the g word look tame.
Mr. Kyri you are a wag (habitual joker) I forgive you.
I say this withn love
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Mr. Kyri
Thank you for your genuine apology.
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SI, The point about my grandfather was that he got upset about something he could do nothing about, namely war. I’ll wait for a political solution to sort this out because I’ve decided that is the only way. Hopefully you’ll get in touch with your lawyer now stellios and you’ll be able to use that route, my grandfather wasn’t able to. Your suffering could now soon be over just like Mr A’s.
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Stelios, your suffering will never end then.
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MC
You know in all the negotiations/talks that have taken place over the last 20 something years regarding the property issue, there has been no mention of scenarios involving property that has been “sold on”.
So in effect, it matters not who currently owns the occupied land (Turks/tcs/ex-pats etc). The debate that is currently taking place is whether the original owner of the occupied land OR the new owner will have the final say on what will happen to the land.
In simpler words:
a. the GCs argue that the original owner should be able to decide whether the said land can be sold/exchanged/ or kept as restitution. there is a pending issue regarding if the original owner will have the right to live in the property due to quotas placed on population within each constituent state. these quotas change a few decades after the signing of the solution.
b. The TCs argue that it is the new owner that decides what happens to the land. The new owner has the right to decide whether to pay compensation to the original owner and keep the land OR vacate the poroperty and receive some form of compensation by the federal state.
it is commonly accepted that within a solution there will be no “confiscation” of land by any of the constituent states. This is against BASIC human rights which the solution has to abite by.
One of the reasons why the Annan plan was shot down by the GCs is because these monies would come out of the pocket of the federal government. This means that the GCs will take on the (vast majority of) cost of the restitution costs, in a sense paying for their own damages.
The loans provided by the IMF would be paid off over a period of 40years with fav. terms.
In any case, I am very skeptical that a political settlement will give new owners any kind of real solution to their (newly found) problems. If anything, if I was an x-pat, i would be betting on the fact that their will never be a solution and not vice versa.
It is interesting to consider that any new construction GC land may end up benefiting the GC owner as they MAY find that along with their land, they also got a villa to go along with it.
it is also very interesting to consider the geography of this as it is widely accepted that the areas around famagusta, rizokarpaso and morphou will allow for a great number of GC residents. The areas around Kyrenia and north nicosia will have stricter rules regarding GC taking residence therer. Considering that all the lands and population around Kyrenia were almost 100% greek pre-74, this means that restitution will be alot more dense in those areas.
There are also issues relating to state owned land which has now been used (either private or by the “trnc”). This land is owned by the RoC. This moneys received for this land would, in theory, be owed by the tc constituent state to the fedaral government. This matters as a lot of the that has been developed over the last 10 years is such a type of land.
there is lots more if you are interested to know…
I wonder how much of this is known in ex-pat circles in the north. You are all new around here….
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Stelios,
I feel your pain, life is too short to carry all your hate. Let it go, forgive your enemies and embrace them. Otherwise, you will shorten your life and die a sad forsaken man. None of us scum or cheapskates would wish that on you or anyone else.
On a lighter note the Euro is in freefall today buy $.
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ME,
In your last post you said:
“One of the reasons why the Annan plan was shot down by the GCs is because these monies would come out of the pocket of the federal government. This means that the GCs will take on the (vast majority of) cost of the restitution costs, in a sense paying for their own damages.”
What a very interesting slip of the tongue you have made.
Don’t you see that after a solution the federal government will not be GC but Cypriot. All citizens will contribute according to their means. The fact that the TC coffers are not able to contribute very much to the restitution costs is largely down to the fact that their economy has been under seige by the RoC since day 1.
Your complaint brings to mind the case of the child who murders his parents and then asks for favourable treatment because he is an orphan.
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VW,
If you took the time to look at the size of the bill we are talking about then it would be clear to you that this is a economically a huge issue. It will hold back economic growth over the next 40 years.
Please take a look at the current GDP generation of each of the constituent states. The north generates but a small part of this.
The RoC has taken a huge hit in the after 74′ years in building refugee camps to house 200K people. It also lost 70% of its economy which it had to rebuild.
We WILL NOT pay for this issue again.
It’s one thing to say that we will make concentions so we can find a peaceful solution to this problem. And complete another to say that we will have to carry the economical burden of a solution that will, to a large extend, legitimises an illegal invasion of our country.
The only fair way to deal with this issue is for Turkey to take up the cost for this. The A5 plan was economically unworkable.
Turkey will of course never accept this, perhaps being kept outside the EU for a few years will convince them to act differently.
Perhaps VW, you would like to think that the TCs were ever something more than a minority in the RoC. Anyway you cut it, TCs are 20% of the population that contribute a mere 10% of the taxes. pre 64 Tcs had a disproportionate say in government. With any new solution they will again have the same outzised say.
What are you complaining about ?
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BK,
Ain’t life a bitch?
You want logic? How’s this for logic -
When senior public servants like police authorities, government or health bodies in the UK and Cyprus are fined for breaching the publics rights, malpractice or miss-carriages of justice the claimant is often compensated if found to have a judgement in their favour.
Who pays that compensation? The Police? If the police pay, whos money do they pay with? Their own? They have no money of their own. It’s tax-payers money and in this case your money. If you can go along with that logic (which I’m afraid you have to) then you will see that logic doesn’t come into it, and you don’t need a PhD to work that out. You got money, the TRNC hasn’t. You want to party, you will be picking up the tab.
ME,
When W.Germany reunited with E.Germany, who paid for the huge cost of the integration of the DDR into the BRD, the East Germans? The Russians?
If you want reunification in your country, you better be prepared to dig deep.
I’m not complaining about anything, but I can see why you will be.
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Your post VW assumes that the the GCs are entirely to blame for the Cyprus Problem. Turkey invaded Cyprus because of the action of Greece – not Greek Cypriots or the government of the ROC. Turkey has punished and continues to punish the GCs because we refuse to meet its unreasonable demands for a settlement. What Turkey has done to Cyprus is illegal and immoral (Varosha?). The Cypriots are the victims of both Turkey and Greece – they should pay.
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Jerry, I’m sure they’ll sort out the payment once the CYPRIOTS sort out the problem. Hopefully when this fails then the GCs will realise who is to blame then. Or are you saying the two Presidents are not representing CYPRIOTS. Now, if the GCs vote YES and the TCs vote NO then I believe you may have an argument that the GCs would be the victims of the TCs’ decision. Oink, oink what’s that in the sky?
OMG, I can see it now. I stagger out of the Brass Farthing pub and order a takeaway kebab in the Magic Kebab and find it’s wrapped in a writ address to me. Cunning stunt!
Thanks Jerry ! Was tempted to give a decent reply instead of just abuse but you did it for me.
Thanks again.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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VW,
A couple of points.
In the UK taxpayers pay the cost of the compensation paid to other tax payers. It is a fair and uniform system which applies to all citizens which reminds me a bit of the general philosophy behind insurance industry.
Your example with Germany is more appropriate as it does have some similarities with the problem we have here. Nevertheless, you keep forgetting that in Cyprus you have refugees, stolen properties, restrictions to live where you choose etc etc etc. The list is endless. I also agree that inevitably we will bear the majority of the cost of reunification, this however is another story. Paying so that the north gets the infrastructure we have is one thing, however, asking me compensate myself for MY property which I am NOT allowed to keep is something that not only did not happen in Germany but it did not happen anywhere else in the world.
This suggestion is at least ridiculous but I wouldn’t expect anything better from **** content removed for abuse ****
Nevertheless I love you all ! Make love not war,
Baron Kyri
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Dominic,
Writ or no writ the fact remains unchanged: You are subhuman scum of the earth and sooner or later you will get it….it does not have to be from our side, even a backstab from “your side” would do so that you eventually realize who and what you so passionately support.
It could ne the cousin of the friend of the minister or the friend of the friend of the chief of police. It does not matter. You will get it : )
I say the above assuming that you have no morals and lack of any human decency and conscience cause if you do there is no need of the above, you are already paying. To be honest with you I do not think so.
Shame you are called Freeman because you totally shit on the concept of freedom. C***man would be more appropriate.
Baron Kyri
PS. Hide it for abuse please.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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BK, the Czech Republic stole German land after the war and they aren’t giving it back. 3m people made homeless and yet the EU aren’t asking them to withdraw. Why is that do you think is it because ****** abuse enjoyed ******
http://www.exulanten.com/odertwo.html
YS, I thought you would like to see how majority voting feels. Its just like a unified Cyprus where the TC vote would be worthless. Believe it or not, I think you’ve upset a few people here with your abuse and more people dislike than like what you stand for. Have you noticed that even though there are several GCs here not many like what you write. I don’t believe it’s a TC thing and it’s not about your politics.
Dominic it’s pretty pointless talking to, you are far to smart for me. Keep punishing the Greek Cypriots after all we are all genocidal maniacs who don’t deserve to live on the island, give it all to the bloody carpetbaggers and anatolian peasants, STUFF YOU MR SMARTARSE.
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DF,
Because the allies said so after the second world war…and then they made UN….and then they came up with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights…..
Article 17.
•(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
•(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.
Article 30.
•Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.
Happy reading.
BK
PS. Even if you were right you would still be ****removed for abuse****
Hot debate. What do you think?
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polly,
I am sorry we cannot come up with better insults but I am afraid any innovative attempts will be “deleted”. At the end of the day you do not even enjoy the usual ones…click click click the dislike button
We already know that you are dead even though we did not know that you have been for 10 years. When you decided to sell your soul to the devil you died because when you sacrifice your morals you become nothing more than an empty muppet, also known as subhuman scum of the earth!
RIP.
Nevertheless, I love you all. Make love, not war,
BK
PS. I will be your side today. Kyrenia again
Anyone was to join the “spit feast” ? 
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VW,
Reunification costs yes but what you suggest has nothing to do with reunification.
You suggest that we pay the cost for compensating us for our land in the north which we will not be allowed to keep.
Where do you see the reunification in that?
BK
PS. Dissapointed there was no abuse?
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Dominique
Impertinent and an insignificant comment.
The T/Cs do like me , I do not mince my words and I’m well known on the real Cyprus forum , not the senile one that cheapskates post their venomous attacks on the RoC whilst praising the Turkish invasion and justifying the deaths of thousand in the process .
We dislike you , there is no way that we would consider you as anything other than cheapskates and enemies of Cyprus.
Your patronising support for the pseudo state is as a result of your passionate hatred for the G/Cs since you see them as the people who sooner or later will demand their properties and they will make no mistake about this.
The era of buying cheap stolen properties has come to an end.
Come on folks start clicking in the name of …democracy !!
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