Greek Cypriot source added …
Comment posted Apostilides judgement about to backfire on GCs? by Malcolm Channing.
Greek Cypriot source added
Malcolm Channing also commented
- Stephen, brilliant! A free newspaper without advertising, unpaid writers, what do you expect? I’m amazed that you would expect any different except as you say it’s “almost word-for-word.” And your point is? Perhaps you would like to write a well researched, original article for us for free? No? Perhaps that answers your criticism.
BTW, your link doesn’t work and his name is Dominic.
- my mouth!
- The sample was taken from an orifice, yes.
- Taunton in Somerset. Inoculation dates back to 1000BC, vaccination to 1796. My Anatolian ancestors stretch a lot further back than 1760 according to a genealogical DNA test I took.
- An ancestor of mine, in 1760, was inoculated for smallpox.
Recent comments by Malcolm Channing
- in Cyprus Today – 24/4/2010
K, how about these UK statistics?[img]http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/electorate-1.jpg[/img]
- in Cyprus Today – 24/4/2010
K, having analysed the stats they show that 20,433 more people in 2010 registered to vote than did in 2005. In order to evaluate these stats you would need extra information, e.g. the number of adults eligible to vote in 2005 and 2010. Another fact is that in 2010, 40 000 people more than in 2005 voted for Eroglu.Obviously someone with a bias would prefer to read something into these figures. What’s your favourite conspiracy theory, K? The man in the grassy knoll was released from area 51 in order to use kinetic abilities to place 20 000 x’s on north Cyprus voting papers?
- EU president Barroso on the joint statement made by The Two Presidents
YS, so YOU don’t recognise the TRNC because it… doesn’t exist? How can you not recognise something unless it exists. You have to recognise it in order to not recognise it… and so on. How comes all these countries are negotiating with the TRNC? They are even giving it money, the EU €259m. How can they give this money to something that doesn’t exist? How will the auditors explain this away?The TRNC exists by virtue of the fact that it hasn’t gone away. Its self-declaration is gaining strength because its enemies have not been able to make it disappear. That’s the way that non-existent things become recognised. The TRNC is to Turkish Cypriots what Israel is to Jews.
- EU president Barroso on the joint statement made by The Two Presidents
YS, old bean, begging your pardon but what is it that YOU don’t recognise? - Wishful thinking or outright deception?
G’R, the article is mainly about politicians and their websites and not the integrity of the Turkish press. Robin does not refer to the Turkish press although he does mention Cyprus Today which is a Cypriot newspaper. You are right of course to always check articles as NCFP have done and that is why they are questioning these statements coming out just before the election. I remember the GC media carrying messages from president Papadopolous in April 2004 just before the referendum:“Mr Annan singled out the Cypriot leader for criticism in his comments, saying Mr Papadopoulos had not accurately explained the contents of the plan to his people in a key television address.” (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3773841.stm)
Seems like you need your head examined if you rely on Greek Cypriot presidents.
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ptepike on
As expected from Dominique unsubstantiated total garbage .
The owner of Larnaca …airport owns the whole of …3 % of total area.
How on earth do you get your information , no doubt from the Turkish military.
As for the heading of this story may I express my utter condolences to your logic !!!
You may be able to foll your self and the senile old Brits but every time you post inaccuracies you are doing a great disservice to their mental faculties !!
The RoC , not the south government as you so naively state , has expropriated legally land belonging not only to T/Cs but G/Cs in order to use such land for public services etc.
Dominique you are out of your deapth mate , I don’t know where you attained your journalistic experience but you were conned !
Greek Cypriot source added
No Malcolm , not a G/C source , but a reliable source .
Here it is again , now please pay attention to the correct amount of T/C owned land at Larnaca airport . THEE PERCENT !!
as expected from Dominique unsubstantiated total garbage .
The owner of Larnaca …airport owns the whole of …3 % of total area.
How on earth do you get your information , no doubt from the Turkish military.
As for the heading of this story may I express my utter condolences to your logic !!!
You may be able to foll your self and the senile old Brits but every time you post inaccuracies you are doing a great disservice to their mental faculties !!
The RoC , not the south government as you so naively state , has expropriated legally land belonging not only to T/Cs but G/Cs in order to use such land for public services etc.
Dominique you are out of your deapth mate , I don’t know where you attained your journalistic experience but you were conned !
Slaveman,
Since when are GC sources reliable for you lot?
You will even start believing that Makarios Droushiotis (very well known to all for his opinions !!!) expresses what we in general believe….or in fact expresses the truth !
I really love you all guys….keep up the good effort…this might have started as a social / news / political website but it is rapidly becoming into a top comedy joint. You are absolutely hilarious
BK
PS. I wonder why you did not post other stories from GC sources.
Tales from the Coffeeshop: Carry on in Cloud Cuckoo Land
By Patroclos
Published on January 24, 2010 +-Text size
BRITISH cuckoos in the north may require the help of the odd sleeping pill before they go to bed at night, since the announcement of the Orams judgment on Tuesday. Not friendly at the best of times, the Brits in the north seemed particularly edgy and hostile when they were approached by a Mail journalist for comments, after the judgment.
They got their comeuppance in the end, the properties they bought on the cheap, because they were stolen, now, being practically worth a fraction of their bargain price as there are no buyers. This could not have happened to nicer people, as they say. And now they have to look over their shoulder wherever they go, in case there is a devious Greek Cypriot waiting to hand them a court summons.
As our friend Constantis Candounas, the lawyer who made it all happen, smugly boasted at his Thursday news conference, “The party is over”. And the proud party-pooper was Candounas who looked as pleased and emotional as a singer who had just won the Eurovision song contest.
His was a super-achievement and deserved all the praise he received, as he singlehandedly – like a mythical hero – shafted Turkish developers, cheapskate Brits, the pseudo-state’s economy and, most probably, Talat’ re-election prospects. In Kyproulla of today all the heroism takes place not on the battlefield but in the court of law and heroes are not soldiers but lawyers.
THE PARTY is over for some, but for our money-grubbing lawyers the party is just beginning. Candounas was quick to point out the business opportunities created by the landmark Orams judgment, in his impassioned call to arms.
“The way is now open for all Greek Cypriots whose properties have been usurped by other EU nationals, to take legal action and enforce Cyprus judgments against such trespassers in the United Kingdom and other EU countries.”
With legal fees being claimed by Candounas in excess of £1 million, our lawyers will be quick to jump on the bandwagon. If past behaviour is anything to go by, we will now clog up the legal systems of the EU member states with requests for the execution of Cyprus court orders against trespassers of Greek Cypriot properties in the north.
It suffices to say that after the referendum, we submitted close to 2,000 claims against Turkey at the European Court of Human Rights.
Now, the opportunities are limitless as we can also sue tourists who have stayed in Greek-owned hotels in the north for trespassing. Candounas has already taken on such a case, and will be going after 60 tourists who had stayed at the Dome Hotel in Kyrenia.
He has their names and addresses and will hand them court summons via the justice ministry in their country of residence.
Each tourist would have to pay a few hundred euro penalty, considering the Orams had to pay about €500 per month on the Apostolides plot. The tourists would have stayed for a week or two at the Dome, so how much would they have to pay for trespassing? Would we be sending execution orders to foreign courts for fines of €200?
I see no reason why we should not if it is in the national interest and the legal fees are high enough.
OPPORTUNITIES are endless. As Candounas said on Thursday, we could also charge people who eat at restaurants that were built on Greek Cypriot land, for trespassing. This opens up the litigation market further, because Greek Cypriots could also be charged with trespassing. Lawyers could have spies watching restaurants built on Greek land and photographing the trespassers.
So if you are planning on eating in Kyrenia in the future do not just ask the waiter for a menu; ask also for the restaurant’s title deed. If it were issued post-74, get out because you could be charged with trespassing.
http://www.cyprus-mail.com/opinions/tales-coffeeshop-carry-cloud-cuckoo-land/20100124
http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/north-s-property-market-free-fall/20100122
North’s property market in free fall
By Nathan Morley
Published on January 22, 2010 +-Text size
ESTATE Agents in the north have conceded that the once-booming property market is in freefall and teetering on the brink of collapse as a result of the Orams ruling.
News of the verdict spread like wildfire, leaving thousands of Britons and other Europeans reeling at the developments in London. Many, realising their property investments were no-longer cast-iron, raced to place their properties on the open market.
In an effort to calm down worried residents, the chairman of the Turkish Cypriot Chamber of Commerce Gunay Cerkez said that Britons, who are panicking at the verdict, must receive urgent guarantees – in an effort to stop them from abandoning their homes in the north.
The buying of property has almost ground to a complete halt, with estate agents struggling to survive as many home owners are concerned that they may soon face a similar fate to David and Linda Orams.
Most of the leading agencies were not even answering their phones yesterday, with all but one agent point-blank refusing to discuss the implications of the Orams case.
A saleswoman for one of the leading realty firms did however comment and warned that things would get worse for ‘everybody in the TRNC’.
“We are not selling any property – not at all. We are waiting for an announcement from the government, it would be best to call back in the future – that is the situation,” she said.
Asked if the rock-bottom prices, which have seen the value of some homes slashed by 50 per cent, would decrease even further, she said: “Yes, they certainly could, keep checking our website.”
In a sign of growing desperation, one estate agent dealing properties in Salamis and Famagusta was yesterday offering brand new apartments for just £20,000, but insisted that payments must be in sterling cash.
The same agent added that he also had luxury apartments normally priced at £49,000 but would sell them for just £25,000 each – again only for cash.
Most experts agree that the Orams ruling will probably prove to be the final nail in the coffin for the once lucrative property market, which recorded record sales after the failure of the Annan plan in 2004.
Only last month Sonar Yetkili from the Construction Contractors Union said that the British expat market was ‘over’ and sales had ground to a virtual standstill.
To compound matters further, Turkish Cypriot media has reported that up to 7,000 unfinished homes have been abandoned by builders, with experts saying half of the properties were poorly constructed or illegal.
Turkish Cypriot authorities have faced a wave of criticism in recent months from residents who complained of being ‘ripped off’ and receiving shoddily built houses.
Serden Hoca, a Turkish Cypriot member of committee which discusses the property issue at the negotiations, said that around ten thousand foreigners reside in the north, and admitted that a number of these will sell their property out of sheer panic.
Foreign property investments are estimated to have injected £1 billion into the Turkish Cypriot economy in recent years.
Meanwhile, mystery surrounds the disappearance of a popular internet message board used by British residents in the north Cyprus.
Just hours after the UK Appeals Court announced that Linda and David Orams would have to demolish their home, the internet board was flooded with concerned residents, many expressing shock at the decision.
By mid-afternoon on Tuesday the website had gone offline and theories abound on other internet sites as to the closure of the forum.
“The website is down because it was being subjected to an attack – a deliberate attempt to overload it,” wrote one forum user.
Another commented: “The website was taken down by its owners to hide the identities and photographs of members who now face claims against their property in the UK.”
http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/sorry-party-s-over/20100122
‘Sorry the party’s over’
By Stefanos Evripidou
Published on January 22, 2010 +-Text size
FOREIGN TRESPASSERS and illegal developers of Greek Cypriot properties in the north were warned in no uncertain terms yesterday that “the party is over” by the lawyer for Melitis Apostolides in the Orams case.
Constantis Candounas warned that there was “no free ride” anymore for those who exploit Greek Cypriot properties in the north following the victory in the English Court of Appeal on Tuesday. “My only message to trespassers and illegal developers in the north is that the party is over. I’m sorry,” he said.
The English Appeals Court ruled in favour of Apostolides, ordering the Orams to demolish the home they built on his land in Lapithos, return the property and pay back rent (£300 for every month since 2002 plus interest) and legal costs, estimated at around £1.35 million sterling.
The Orams legal team yesterday sought to appeal the decision, which the appellate judges had already ruled was final. “They are trying to argue the inarguable,” said Candounas. They also sought a 42-day stay of execution to see how the decision could be implemented. The authorities in the north have already announced they would not implement the decision.
Candounas told the Cyprus Mail that if the Orams failed to pay what was due, then Apostolides could go after their assets in the UK, following the latest seminal ruling. If they failed to demolish the house and stop trespassing, “then they are in contempt of court and it’s up to the court to decide how to react”.
Greek Cypriot refugee Apostolides said he didn’t take pleasure in the Orams’ suffering or anybody else’s, but that he was trying to get his property and rights back.
“I may not be a politician but I am an active ‘politis’, the Greek word for citizen,” he said, adding, “It’s not about the money anyway. It’s about returning home.
Candounas thanked all those who contributed to the successful outcome of the case, paying special tribute to Achilleas Demetriades, the lawyer for Titina Loizidou, who “opened the way for all of us”.
He also thanked “those who actually chose Cherie Blair (the wife of Tony Blair) to be our counterpart”, noting “she is a brilliant lawyer”.
“No one can claim that the Orams did not have adequate legal representation, they had the best legal assistance money could buy. Mrs Blair has provided for free a publicity that we would have to spend millions of pounds to obtain. She turned this into a high profile case and where people would not have heard of this case now they have heard and are aware of the situation that exists in Cyprus,” he said.
The architect of her appointment was probably a Cypriot, who thought “to appoint the mukhtar’s wife to represent them,” the lawyer added.
Candounas is already working on a new brief, having received instructions from the owners of the Dome Hotel in Kyrenia to sue for trespass 60 tourists who visited the hotel in 2009.
He clarified that “we do not object to the development of tourism in the north, I believe that it should be encouraged but not at the expense of the Greek Cypriots and definitely not in Greek Cypriot properties”.
He called on Turkish Cypriots to reach some arrangement with the real owners of these properties, and in particular with the Castellis family who own the Dome.
“This is not a political thing, this is purely business and I am sure an agreement could be reached between the parties involved,” he said, adding, “There is no intention to stop business in the north, but there is no free ride, the party is over.”
He is also in the process of taking a British couple to court for their use of property in occupied Karmi village, while he has received instructions from Charita Mandoles and her family to institute legal proceedings against the Republic of Turkey in Cyprus courts. When a judgment is obtained, the family will try to have it enforced in Europe, he said.
Replying to questions, Candounas noted that if he wanted to, Apostolides could have sued the Turkish Cypriots living in his house, “because his house is next to the holiday house of the Orams…but he didn’t”.
Apostolides added: “I could understand in some way the Turkish Cypriots living in my house but I could not accept somebody coming from abroad, especially as an investor, speculator, to have more rights on my property than anybody else.”
Asked whether he would sue for trespass the hundreds of Greek Cypriots who frequent casinos in the north built on Greek Cypriot land, Candounas replied: “I’m a lawyer, not one of the three musketeers”.
The mail says:
“”And now they have to look over their shoulder wherever they go, in case there is a devious Greek Cypriot waiting to hand them a court summons.”"
Not anymore , they would now , the cheapskates , have to subscribe to the RoC official gazette since an announcement in the official government paper is sufficient , no need to confront the offending party in the pseudo state. So all you plonker codgers rush and subscribe !!!!
Yiannis,
The 3% you are talking about together with much more land belonging to GCs has been taken by the legal government of a recognized state after the right procedures according to the law were followed in order to build an airport !!!
Nobody but some blood sucking scavenging subhuman scum of the earth would compare this with what happened in the north. Even they know that the two cases have nothing in common, nevertheless they believe that if they repeat such stupidities many times they will start believing it in the end and they will start feeling a bit better about their selves and their pathetic lives
BK
Baron Kyri.
Perhaps you should come over to the TRNC instead of bleeting from afar. Concidering the universal state of the housing market in general, houses here are still changing hands and the market is reasonably bouyant. Yes it has suprised me, but if you want to sell and have your Kocan it takes only a few weeks to completion.
Steady on Dominic you are stirring up the dregs, Larnaca may not be the the best example, but the principle has indeed been established.
The gcs came to claim ancestral homes in Karaman last year, there was no need for the Turkish Army though, a few squirts from garden hoses and their feet didn’t touch the ground. What’s changed?
Troodo,
Most of those properties are being bought by expats moving North to escape the Eurozone.
Troodo,
I recently started visiting the occupied north reasonably often to see my new best expat friends. I have never experienced such an amazing hospitality in my entire life. In the past I had been offered food, drinks, even accommodation but I had never been offered the hostess before. Being with so nice and hospitable people is totally refreshing …and absolutely satisfying
Additionally, when they are not being “hospitable” they love gossip. You can imagine how much I love hearing about their friends in the north, especially when names and surnames are mentioned
Regarding the buoyant market I am very well aware of it thanks to the electronic media. It is so buoyant that it will soon start flying in the sky ….however, it would be fair to add “just like ours in the south”
BK
An old codger – plonker wrote !!! Cant believe my eyes.
“Concidering the universal state of the housing market in general, houses here are still changing hands and the market is reasonably bouyant. Yes it has suprised me,”"
Yes mate , the universal property market is suffering the effects of the economic downturn but according to your one brain cell currently on strike the market in the pseudo state is Booming !!!
You are a plonker aren’t you !!
Reidi , have you subscribed to the RoC OFFICIAL GAZETTE YET ?
You are a pathetic one brain cell old codger-plonker !!
Start packing mate your turn wont be long you despicable piece of nonsense !
tcs could go to the imo and get an estimate for their properties. if they accept the prices the imo givens them Im sure the RoC would be happy to pay up
I still dont see what the tcs properties have to do with the problems ex-pats are having in the north.
maybe another case of of people scratching where they are not itching. Whatever happens to the TC properties, it does not change the case for people like the Orams.
Even with a political solution it is very hard to see how things will change for tresspasers. The ECHR superseeds local constitution/laws when it comes to primary human rights. So even if the involved parties sign a compromising solution I do not see how anyone can be forced to give ownership up.
Perhaps an agreeement that defers right to occupy the property until a solution for current occupiers (with time limits).
This is why the apostolides case is important (as well as loizidou). From first hand knowledge the working committies have not found a way to cirumvent these issues. The GCs of course do not want to compleltely cirumevent them.
Watch for the result of the ECHR appeals court to decide (Demades &others vs turkey) to overcome previous ruling regarding the usage of the IMO. If the ruling of the court is against the use of the IMO, the IMO will be in effect be put out of action (with the exception of some very desperate GCs).
The GCs in their vast majority will not give up their properties in exchange for moneys. This does not mean that they want to return under TCs governance.
Anyway you cut it, the Orams ruling is here to stay….
I know you like me really Yiannis mate, come on admit it. You only call me names when I touch a nerve, easypeasy never miss,you know I am right
yiannis savvides I think you need glasses as well as a brain. No mention was made of a booming market, but then that is what you GC’s do best distorting the facts.
Reidi,
Mate , I don’t like you at all , you are a twit and you know you are.
You will get you comeuppance sooner rather than late , plonker !!
yiannis savvides
since an announcement in the official government paper is sufficient
Why not use the North Korean Peoples Daily to be on the safe side? Your official govenment paper has got holes in it.
“If you dig a hole for someone else, you’ll fall into it”
‘
That’s what TRNC is saying all along. But who listens? At the end of the day Cyprus needs a political solution.
YS,
If comeuppance is the best bits we already have it.
It looks like a garden hose is all you need to hang on to it too.
Just make ssure you keep your writs dry, you never know when you might need toilet paper.
Your UK education was wasted, BK has a good excuse for not being able to put a good insult together but I expected better from you.
Reidi , let me make it crystal clear.
I despise each and every vagabond cheapskate who knowing very well the political realities of Cyprus chose to join the Turkish army in the occupied part of Cyprus and become the enemy of the RoC. 60 thousand T/Cs are holders of the RoC PASSPORT AND ids , these are my people you and the rest of low down peasants are my enemy .
I’m more English than you and the rest of you will ever be , you bloody vagabonds !
YS,
Like I said, you have wasted a UK education.
I do admire the Turkish Army though because they are, well disciplined well trained and well equipped.
But they don’t have to be based in the TRNC, apart from their US smart weapons; they have at least 50 thousand airborne forces that could be in Larnaca and from Turkey quicker than they could drive there from the TRNC border if they wished. Who would stop them or even fire a shot?
Besides it has been proved that a garden hose is all the protection anyone needs against you guys.
p.s. Even your goat is more English than me.
Reidi , you are an English yob , most probably broke , toothless , smelly too , and I have a hunch that you also are to the Turkish army near you their rear man !
I’m grateful that the UK gave me an education and the ability to have a discerning taste in people and goods , you are are , as you always have been , a cheap English peasant , uncouth , no sophistication and no class , now get off my face peasant !
why don’t we as a good will gesture send all these trespassers and vagabonds from the north to britain, because all the scroungers thieves and cheats from other parts of the world seem to end up there anyway, once they’re there and established claiming benefits, then they can apply for legal aid, ()and who knows maybe cherie blair might represent some of them), take their case to the echr claiming they’re now disposed persons, and no doubt win their case. With nearly a million poles in britain what’s another 250.000 or so refugees
once again thank christ i’m no english
The old boys network of the ‘Class of 77′ British school Nicosia
(19 years olds) are calling the shots, Turks Cyp school boys kicked out by then, as the green felt pen/line dictated.
How can so many 51 year old men, based in the south, cause so much damage … to a beautiful Island.
.. with ease, as they had advantage over their mates, who were kicked out of class in 1974, aged only 16 (clever lovely lads }pushed away from their friends and sent to ‘the north’ to start again, with no homes, books, clothes,food, dads probably dead or almost finished off, trying to make sense of it all and feed their kids. Some kids looked after their families, became men too soon, and paid a hefty price .
Cyprus belongs to this lot. and if they have remortgaged and remortgaged as far as Wall Street what next.
Dear blood sucking scavenging subhuman scum of the earth,
I am sure you know what you truly are, this is why you are so desperate to defend your pathetic existence
For me this is enough
So…enjoy having your rear passages violated by Anatolian boys…enjoy commerse in finacial markets….enjoy driving your Toyotas…..enjoy dressing up and firing blanks….enjoy twisting the truth and repeat stupid invalid arguements
You know that I know that you know…and this is enough for me
BK
PS. You know I love you all….wednesday in Kyrenia…it could be you
I am only a girly, but I dont understand why the GC’s are having a go at Dominic, there is nothing in his article they cannot read
in the Cyprus Mail, their own English speaking newspaper.
They have shot themselves in the foot, what did we exect,
what’s the worst that can happen, all those naughty cheapskates
and collaborators vill be shot (sorry got carried away) will end
up being kept by the British tax payers, having been fleeced by
the TCs and Turkish builders who knowingly sold them properties and as usual the oldest and weakest will
pay the price. We all know there are no consequences for the actual criminals. The GC’s who caused the need for the Turkish
Army to enter Cyprus will be rewarded for their efforts and
will consider it justice.
Thus it ever was. Fair, of course not but then as my old grandma
used to say ‘fair my girl, whoever told you life was fair’
I shall go and a have a liue down now!!!
Just be careful who you liue next to !
“Furthermore, what would happen if TC’s came to the courts in droves, demanding compensation for loss of use of their properties and restitution?”
How can TC’s come to the courts in droves if they do not have their title deeds? I think the judgement in the Orams case more than anything said give the title deeds back to the TC’s. That is what I think the apprehension might be with more cases in the South being brought like the Apostilides case. The number of TC’s that could go into the courts would increase by a factor of probably 300 to 500. For every 1 TC that has their title deeds for property in the South today there are probably several hundred that do not.
I could see this problem coming about 15 years ago when to my question about where their title deeds were for their property in the South my TC friends said the government took them. So they cannot claim property back if they wanted to. As citizens in the South can challenge through the courts with their title deeds, for citizens in the North it is hard to impossible.
However, I would like to hear the thoughts from members on this board–both GC, TC, and the English–as to how to treat some TC’s. I think the responses to a single situation might be enlightening to the whole process.
My TC friends lived in Nicosia and Paphos before the divide. The wife in Nicosia and husband in Paphos. They had property in both place. Paphos clearly on the South and Nicosia property was on both the north and south and in Nicosia downtown near the green line in present day GC. I have seen the property as it is in a fairly nice area. And based on the Orams judgement of 500 pounds per month I would say this has to be worth multiple times that for years. And the Paphos property is on the fringe of a nice hotel today. At the time of the problems in the 60′s it was not safe and so they went to England where they worked hard and did well. They both received British Citizenship. (I think more than half of the TC’s are living outside of the North right now, which reminds of Israel Palestine and the right to return). Any way, in the late 70′s they came back and with points–both from the husband and wife–they redeemed property which they live in to today. I think the points they used were some that belonged to the Paphos property. However, they have only redeemed a faction of their points to date. Their house they are living in is GC. If the GC would want his property back, like in the Orams’ case, what should happen? And how can they do anything with the TRNC holding their title deeds? They would certainly have standing in the EU as British Citizens I would think for their property in the South. But I am not sure about that. Any thought?
And should the TRNC give the title deeds back to the TC’s who they belonged to? I can tell you what their thinking is but I would rather hear the thoughts on this board.
Reidi wrote:
“Besides it has been proved that a garden hose is all the protection anyone needs against you guys.”
The same garden hoses that killed 5000 plus G/Cs in 1974 !
Did you know the number of losses of the Turkish army ?
I will tell you , you senile old codger , 3000 Turkish troops lost their lives in the war of 1974 , what do you make of that Plonker !
Yiannis,
If a typing error is worth a dig, I better get out my spade
and go through your posts!!
Whether we believe each other is irrelevent as we will never
meet.
This does not apply to you Yiannis, because for whatever reason
I dont think you are like this.
Most GCs having sold their land, their dowry land and just about
spent all the money,. it has suddenly occurred to them perhaps
we should get some money from elsewhere – theres land up
North for the taking, lets go for it.
Polly , nonsense !
Dont dismiss my ancestral land , not dowry land my wife was English, but land that my ancestors had for hundreds of years. When I say “MY ” I do not mean it in a singular form but plural embracing each and every Cypriot whose land has been usurped.
Polly Peck,
How can you be so stupid?
There are 100s of articles on the issue on GC media and yet Mr. Slaveman chose the one which does not reflect what we believe without even mentioning anything about the other opinions. Had it been his article it would be acceptable but to selectively choose something from GC press and recreate it like this is simply called “propaganda”. Had it been his piece it would be more acceptable, however, the problem comes from the fact that it implies that this is what we believe ! Google it you moron !
I will not comment on the rest of your provocative and stupid lies. You as well as all of you know the truth !!! It hurts but it is there. Your fingers/ pens / mouths are not big enough to hide you. You have been greedy and you chose to sell your selves to the devil You are empty subhuman creatures, the scum of the earth who need to suck blood out of hard working honest people in order to survive.
You truly disgust me !!!
I will agree with your mother though, yes, life is not fair because if it was someone would cut your wrinkly fingers off and seal your stupid mouth, or even better your dad would have jerked you off on some toilette paper and flushed you down the toilette instead of impregnating your mother.
The above comment was not personal but it was for you lot…you know who you are.
Nevertheless, I love you all and you know it very very well. Whenever you decide to become decent ask for forgivenets and I will inject you with the liquid of peace ! This is an ancient pagan Greek tradition, I am sure that you will enjoy it equally as much as I will
Make love, not war. At the end of the day even you can became human,
BK
Yiannis
I am impressed – you didnt insult even though I was being deliberately provocative.
There is some truth in the fact that an awful lot of land has
been sold in the South to developers, does that bother you. I am
not talking about TC owned land.
According to you lot then, even your own GC’s are liars. I think the Greeks are right to name you η πόρνες της Μεσογείου.
Polly , from a moral stand point and a legal one too any sale of land , property etc that involves a legal transaction should not bother anyone.
If land that I have in Famagusta is sold to anyone without my express permission then of course I would react , would you not do the same ?
In the RoC T/C owned land has not been sold to anyone , foreigner or otherwise.
There is not one single G/C , or in fact one single law abiding citizen who would support the sale of land belonging to some else .
Why not GC and TC must not demand compensation for loss of use of their properties and restitution? I say all must claim their rights. Republic of Cyprus must and will comply with whatever court decisions just like it did with no exceptions in the past. The question mark is on the TC regime’s side that up until today haven’t comply to any UN or court decision what so ever..
GC must not worry for this kind of Backlash since the power of the law is on our side for many reasons.
The TC legal owners of the land that was used for Infrastructure must and will take compensations for the use of their land but not for the 35year LOSS since the Turkish army and their side are responsible for that. They are the ones who forced the TCs sign illegal papers that said they decline the ownership of their properties on the south in order to take new properties in the North.
So compensation for the expropriation of their land, YES.
Compensation for the deprivation of their land. NO unless if they sue TURKEY.
η πόρνες της Μεσογείου = prostitutes of Mediterranean.
Nice one Troodo, the Greeks have wisdom, but they have become Οι επαίτες της Μεσογείου.
So they may need a few tax paying prostitutes to help them out.
TROODO AND THUNDERBOX
I dont understand – its all Greek to me.
The beggars in the Mediterranean – Thunderbox, even Greeks have their limits, they wouldn’t touch a GC with a ten foot pole.
Neither would they touch an English yob !!
Kyriacos, thank you for your response and I wish others would weigh in.
Two quick questions in reflection of your post:
1. So if I read your post correctly, the Apostilides case was wrong to find judgment against the Orams for 500 pounds a month. I believe that is how you view it. Just this aspect singularly irrespective of the merits of the other issues in the case. Correct me if I am wrong.
2. Your post is interesting too as you find TC’s were victims also of Turkey in a broad sense. However, from the beginning of your post–GC and TC alike must not take compensation–to the end where TC must not take compensation because the “Turkish Army and their side” were responsible are you maintaining your initial point? Who is the their side of which you speak? Does this TC I mention above bear the burden of the Turkish Army invading the island?
Point of question, if the TRNC is an illegal regime, should the ROC restore the title deeds to these TC’s at once?
Troodo and to a lesser extend Thunderbollocks,
According to us lot even some of our own GC’s are liars. Do you find that strange? I really do not understand what is so strange about it. Please also note that I have not accused the author of being a liar. I just believe that his opinions are not shared by many and that his main concern is to attract attention by creating “fake scandals”.
Regarding “η πόρνες της Μεσογείου = prostitutes of Mediterranean” I am sorry to tell you that you got it wrong, both grammatically as well as regarding what it means. To begin with it should either be “οι πορνες” for plural or “η πόρνη” for singular. Additionally this is not what Greeks call us but what Mitsotakis, an ex Greek Prime minister called Cyprus, the island. He called Cyprus “Η Πορνη τις Μεσογειου”, “the prostitute of the Mediterranean” because through the centuries Cyprus has been attacked and occupied by every single player in history but nobody stayed, they all left.
The context of his little speech was that like all other occupiers in the past Turkey will also sooner of later fuck off the island
Regarding your other sweet comments I do not know if Greeks would touch us with a ten foot pole but I can ensure you that we touch your women with much smaller poles than that. Your women actually feel honoured to “pole dance” on any “upmarket and civilized” pole like ours !
If you want to honour fair play all you have to do is to keep them how we like them, neat and clean in the bush department and send them over to us
And since you mentioned the beggars of the Mediterranean let me remind you some other words used for Turkey and Turkish people:
The term “Turk” acquired the a meaning similar to “barbarian” or “heathen” in various European languages, as evident from the following dictionary entries:
Websters New Collegiate Dictionary: “One who is cruel or tyrannical.” (noted as archaic)[1][35]
Concise Oxford Dictionary: “Ferocious, wild or unmanageable person.”[1][36]
Random House Dictionary: “A cruel, brutal and domineering man.”[1]
Many vices in the world were associated with the Turks. Others came from history, when Turks invaded Europe. Some sayings:
In Dutch there are, although at present not much used, a lot of demeaning phrases about Turks. The most used ones include “eruit zien als een Turk” (“to look like a Turk”
which means to be dirty, disgusting and “rijden als een Turk” (“driving like a Turk”
which means someone is a bad driver. For decades after the Turkish immigrants came to The Netherlands most encyclopedias and dictionaires, including the Van Dale, still referred to a Turk as someone who is dirty, barbaric and bloodthirsty, instead of someone who lives in Turkey.[37][38]
In Italian phrases such as “bestemmia come un Turco” (“he swears like a Turk”
. One of the most infamous Italian phrase (and one much used by headline writers) was “Mamma li Turchi!” (“Oh my, the Turks are coming!”
this is used to suggest an imminent danger, as when the Ottoman Turks threatened Europe.[39] In addition, Italians regularly use the expression “Fumare come un Turco” (“To smoke like a Turk”
.[citation needed]
In Romanian, the expression “Măi, turcule” (You, Turk).[41] is used to address to a person that fails to comprehend or is ignorant. The expression “a fuma ca un turc” (to smoke like a Turk) is used to denote a person who smokes a lot.[citation needed]
In French, the word Turc was once used in proverbial expressions such as C’est un vrai Turc (“He’s a real Turk”
, used to indicate that a person was harsh and pitiless.[42]
When the Spanish wanted to make disparaging remarks about a person, he/she was called “Turco”.[1]
In Persian, “Tork-e khar” (“Turkish ass/donkey”
is a derogatory joke usually directed against Turkic-speaking Iranian Azeris.[43][44]
In Russian there is a proverb Незваный гость хуже Татарина (“An unwanted guest is worse than a Tatar”, with Tatars being a Turkic people living in Russia).[45]
In Armenian, a word Turk is still commonly used to question someone’s stupidity: “հո թուրք չես?!” (“Are you a Turk?”
, also to describe disordered and very dirty house: “կարծես թուրքի տուն լինի” (“Looks like a Turk’s house”
.[48]
Voltaire characterised [49] the Turks as:
“tyrants of the women and enemies of arts”.
He also spoke[49] of the need:
“to chase away from Europe these barbaric usurpers”
He accused the Turks[49] of having destroyed Europe’s ancient heritage from :”the
Orient’s Christian realm” and wrote:
“I wish fervently that the Turkish barbarians be chased away immediately out of the country of Xenophon, Socrates, Plato, Sophocles and Euripides. If we wanted, it could be done soon but seven crusades of superstition have been undertaken and a crusade of honour will never take place. We know almost no city built by them; they let decay the most beautiful establishments of Antiquity, they reign over ruins.”
Philipp Melanchthon described Turkish people as follows:
“When i consider history, I find that there has been no nation tht has practiced more blasphemy of God, brutally, shameful fornication, and every kind of wild and chaotic living than the Turks.”[50]
Cardinal Newman described the Turks as:
the “great anti-Christ among the races of men.”[51]
He also said in the The Blight of Asia, a controversial book written by an American diplomat about Turkish human rights violations,
“The barbarian power, which has been for centuries seated in the very heart of the Old World, which has in its brute clutch the most famous countries of classical and religious antiquity and many of the most fruitful and beautiful regions of the earth; and, which, having no history itself, is heir to the historical names of Constantinople and Nicaea, Nicomedia and Caesarea, Jerusalem and Damascus, Nineva and Babylon, Mecca and Bagdad, Antioch and Alexandria, ignorantly holding in its possession one half of the history of the whole world.”[51]
William Ewart Gladstone, a 19th century British Prime Minister was quoted in the same book as saying:
“Let me endeavor, very briefly to sketch, in the rudest outline what the Turkish race was and what it is. It is not a question of Mohammedanism simply, but of Mohammedanism compounded with the peculiar character of a race. They are not the mild Mohammedans of India, nor the chivalrous Saladins of Syria, nor the cultured Moors of Spain. They were, upon the whole, from the black day when they first entered Europe, the one great anti-human specimen of humanity. Wherever they went a broad line of blood marked the track behind them, and, as far as their dominion reached, civilization disappeared from view. They represented everywhere government by force as opposed to government by law.—Yet a government by force can not be maintained without the aid of an intellectual element.— Hence there grew up, what has been rare in the history of the world, a kind of tolerance in the midst of cruelty, tyranny and rapine. Much of Christian life was contemptuously left alone and a race of Greeks was attracted to Constantinople which has all along made up, in some degree, the deficiencies of Turkish Islam in the element of mind!”[51]
Ziya Gökalp, prominent Turkish ideologue of Pan-Turkism, in his writings heavily criticizes officials of the Ottoman Empire for always using the term “donkey Turk” regarding its Turkish subjects.[52]
I hope you enjoyed it even though I am sure that you knew most, if not all, of these. I bet you are proud
Nevertheless, you know I love you all so please keep sending them to me how I like them, neat and clean
BK
Listen Thomas if you ask me, yes of-course Cyprus must at once restore the title deeds to all TC with no conditions whatsoever. I believe asking for your human rights to be restored first in order to restore the human rights of others later-on is pure hypocrisy. You must respect human rights first in order to claim yours. But i don’t think to the bottom this is a fair question.
Republic of Cyprus still considers TC as the legal owners and at least there are some procedures for them to claim their properties back and live to the south. Some did; So ROC to a point made the first step and respects the human rights of TC to a degree.
But at the same time Turkey did not gave anything in return back. And that is a fact we just cannot ignore. For the last 35 years. 200.000 GC are still refugees living in difficult circumstances and at the same time an entire city, Famagusta that could have made their life a lot easier is just kept closed and deserted waiting for Turkish settlers from anatolia to claim it. Only recently on 2004 Turkey allowed the GC to just visit some parts of North cyprus for a few days. So i believe the argument that Turkey must do the next step sounds at least logical to my ears.
As for the ORAMs case i don’t know..
it is an ethical thing i guess.. I do feel sorry for orams.. i really do. But
was it ethical for Mr A to loose his property without any sort of Compensation what so ever?
I don’t think this is ethical either so.. i guess depending on your side you choose where you stand on this. The sure thing is that legally MrA was vindicated. Now if legal-justice is a fare thing afterall this is another huge philosophical question that i am afraid i am just not qualified enough to answer.
Maybe if Orams did not stated with such rude to his face ”this is our land now” when he crossed the borders to visit his family home but instead showed a little compassion or at least pretend they didn’t know anything offering him a coffee with a logical compensation for both sides .. .. then.. Maybe MrA wouldn’t be so pissed. Or if Turkey tried first to expropriate the land of MRa and then sell it to innocent foreigners..
but I can ensure you that we touch your women with much smaller poles than that.- You can say that again.
Cyprus has been attacked and occupied by every single player in history but nobody stayed, they all left.- Hardly surprising, who would want to live with GC’s.
The term “Turk” acquired the a meaning similar to “barbarian” or “heathen” — And these are the people who actually bothered to wash themselves and who were far in advance of the West in many sciences, including medicine. I will not go into the atrocities committed in the name of the Christian Church, it might burst your bubble and cause you damage.
Troodo, you are full of shit !
A senile old yob , nothing worst than an ageing fool , especially one who wears earrings , the only reason you are in the pseudo state is the abundance of Anatolian service engineers !!
Kyriacos, You are a fellow that I believe if in charge we would not be talking about this 35 years out.
But as you can see from other posters on here, the situation is continuing to fan larger flames, not smaller. What we have seen to date is much like this board; very few people willing to really engage. With you I agree on Famagusta, it is sad. And if Orams treated Mr. A as they did that is wrong too. I personally have seen GC that come across and are invited in and have tea with the TC. And I also came across a situation near Karmi–out riding my bike–where the police had to be called in. I am also extremely critical of the North in a lack of taking care of the land. I ride my bike in the mountains and I see more and more trash just thrown around. As I have reflected on this it is indicative of a people that don’t really feel that the land truly belongs to them.
The situation we have gotten to is the result of a war. What people are trying to do is reclaim legal rights after a war. And that is hard. Wars occur because two side cannot talk through their problems. And the reality is that things do not get put back the way they were. My family lost a plantation in a war that divided the US. Nobody is looking or seeking compensate for the loss of our property of which some of the Atlanta airport sits on today. Nobody took Abraham Lincoln to court for the invasion. I guess we were lucky to get out alive as hundreds of thousands did not. I tell you one thing, history is taught differently in the South than in the North of the US today. Much the same as in Cyprus with one difference, nothing has been settled in the mind of either side.
If you start from the basis of a war and work to the present then there might be some ability to put back together and move on. But if both sides can not come to a conclusion on the basis of the war, how can they come to a conclusion on much simpler things? One thing that I can pretty much tell you for sure is that if there is not someone that comes to the table with a game changer–something different than the same old same old–then the situation will be exactly the same 35 years from now. And that might be hopeful as there is a real possibility of another war. I talked with English folks that watched the war in 74 out their front window in Karmi; jets flying below their elevation strafing. Had they thought there was going to be a war they would not have even been there. It crept up on them. I myself even have a hard time believing this sometimes too but the reality sinks in as in my case one morning I am riding my mountain bike at sunrise and I have to stop as tanks are crossing in front of me. Folks there are a lot of arms in Cyprus in a very small space and that is usually a recipe for problems.
I am just telling you from the standpoint of how I see it. It is not how I would like to see it, but the reality of the situation.
I/we can talk about the merits of 500 pounds a month compensation for this and rights for that, but in the face of another conflict what does that all mean? There are real security issues on both sides that have never been settled. And it is not being addressed yet. Just look at the hate spewed on this board. We are worried about working on the patient’s broken foot and doing nothing for the gunshot wound to the stomach.
Reading Thomas’s last post is a sobering experience. Nothing and I mean nothing is worth killing for. Long after we are all gone
the land will still be here, we’ll just be manure, part of the food
chain. How insignificant we really are and yet we cannot co- exist. How arrogant we are thinking our rights and needs are
greater than anyone elses.
Reading and agreeing with Thomas’s take on things is so depressing
and no, I do not know the answer either.
.. The garbage thing is common for both sides i believe, is not just the north part, even though i have not visited North to compare. Even in Britain you see garbage all over the place nowadays, people are just like that.. arrogant pricks who exploit anything they have access to.
I am not that pessimistic over the future though i don’t believe in war neither. I believe when Turkey joins the EU approximately 20 years from now everything will be solved. One way or another. I believe justice will finally prevail for both Sides.
Both Turkey and the GC side as Eu members will then have to respect the Eu court resolutions.
Whatever that may been.
So yes one way or another the problem will be solved, people may come and go but Cyprus as an island will always be there..
Kiriacos
The litter problem here is 20 fold that of the South and even
the U.K. It is disgusting and this I do believe to be the
fault of the Turkish immigrants – definitely not the military
as whenever you drive near a camp it is spotless. It seems to be
their culture to drop anything anywhere, and I do mean anything;
from a sweet wrapper, to a fridge to a soiled nappie to a settee.
Polly Peck,
Of course nothing is worth killing for if you are the one benefiting from a situation while you just rest your fat wrinkly body on an armchair making fun at those who actually suffered a loss.
To be honest with you I totally agree with what you say, nevertheless, your actions have nothing to do with your words…and you know very well that you are what you do, not what you say !
Not in the mood to abuse you more today even though I would like to tell you something about the army:
Spotless in and around camps does not mean that soldiers will also behave in this manner when they are out
BK
Troodo,
I never claimed that no atrocities have been committed in the name of Christian Church. In fact Christian Church (and unfortunately religions in general) have been responsible for some of the worst atrocities in human history, if not the worst.
On the other hand I think that you got a bit confused there. I did not talk about Muslims, I talked about Turks ! Other nations committed atrocities but also contributed to civilization. You only committed atrocities and your only involvement with civilizations is their destruction.
You talk about a nation more advanced than the west. Are you actually referring to your nation and your science or to nations the Ottoman empire occupied and civilizations that these nations already had and you failed to destroy? I bet you were referring to “stolen” medicine and civilization but I am not surprised. You have always had this charisma of stealing and making yours whatever does not belong to you. You even have the nerve to call them yours ! hahahahaha
Anyway, just look around you, see our churches and you will understand what I mean (if you are honest enough to admit it of course).
The following quote from William Ewart Gladstone, a 19th century British Prime Minister describes you perfectly:
“Let me endeavor, very briefly to sketch, in the rudest outline what the Turkish race was and what it is. It is not a question of Mohammedanism simply, but of Mohammedanism compounded with the peculiar character of a race. They are not the mild Mohammedans of India, nor the chivalrous Saladins of Syria, nor the cultured Moors of Spain. They were, upon the whole, from the black day when they first entered Europe, the one great anti-human specimen of humanity. Wherever they went a broad line of blood marked the track behind them, and, as far as their dominion reached, civilization disappeared from view. They represented everywhere government by force as opposed to government by law.—Yet a government by force can not be maintained without the aid of an intellectual element.— Hence there grew up, what has been rare in the history of the world, a kind of tolerance in the midst of cruelty, tyranny and rapine. Much of Christian life was contemptuously left alone and a race of Greeks was attracted to Constantinople which has all along made up, in some degree, the deficiencies of Turkish Islam in the element of mind!”.
Talking about bubbles where did you get yours? I really need one and yours is the most efficient I have ever seen
BK
Third world people are not that fussy where their garbage is thrown , part of their culture I’m afraid , same culture that defines the honour of a family as resting in between a females legs .Fact !
Here in the UK ITS EVIDENT IN THE STREETS OF LONDON.
Spitting and discharging their noses on to the pavement is again a part of this third world culture .
Dont anyone dare call me a racist !!!
Yiannis
You paint an ugly – but true picture.
Kiri.
You really are a hypocrite. But keep it up, the more who read your posts the more will realise your one-sided vitriol.
Troodo,
You do not even know me so your opinions are as crap as the rest of your beleifs. On the other hand I have to admit that I bite when I am provoked ! So keep provoking me and feel my bites
Having said that I have to point out that I used the verb “bite” metaphorically. When I am provoked I just stop being tactfull and I rub the truth in your ugly faces….and the truth hurts more than anything else I could ever do to you
So please keep them clean and neat for me, stop talking nonsense and I will stop reminding you the truth.
I love you all ! Make love, not war,
BK
i hear talk of WHEN Turkey joins the EU,i’m quite sure the french will veto this, with an estimated 6 million muslims already in the country, they don’t want anymore coming in. And talking of rubbish visit crete or rhodes or even zante and the layby’s are awash with rubbish, at least where i live in “guds landet”, (gods country) our layby’s are free from trash
Kyri you keep making love what on earth are you on !!!!
Kiri. Truth seems to be beyond your perception, which keeps us all amused. You GC sympathisers utter hatred for Turks, or anything Turkish, make you appear ridicules. To try and debate with such closed minds is pointless, but goading you into making a fools of yourselves certainly has its value – so I am content.
Troodo , where did you learn your English ?
My friend Kyriacos,
If Turkey were to get into the EU, as you suggest, that might be a route to resolution. However, I do not believe that Turkey will get into the EU, and not only that, I also believe that they will withdraw from the process in the next 3 to 4 years. They will withdraw, in my opinion, for three reason outside of the fact that many/most of their people do not want it. What is ironic is that it is the Islamist Government that is pushing for the EU membership, not the secularist.
1. The EU application, no matter how it started out, today is more a question of balance of power between the military and the current government (Islamist). In the most simple terms, under guise of reform to get into the EU they are destroying the military power in internal government and arresting military officers. And as that happens and has happened their need/desire to join the EU diminishes.
2. If you look at the more recent (last several years) economic reports/numbers in Turkey much trade has turned from the West to the Middle East, Russia and Asia. Looking at the hard numbers you see that trade has leaped with this area and steadily and in some cases (economic sectors) dramatically fallen with the West. Turkey is getting their economic house in order outside of the EU. In this context there is far less desire to align with the EU as in the past. This week Turkey is issuing a 10 year bond, something unheard of in the past but a sign of the economic reform.
3. And this is the most ironic, but Greece might be the unwinding of the EU. Greek problems economically could very well break the EU as we know it. The desire by Turkey to join the EU took a dramatic fall this week.
Therefore, in my opinion mind you, basing the resolution in Cyprus on the Turkish EU application is a goal that is now in the rear view mirror and fading fast. That is why I talk about the need for a game changer in looking at a resolution.
If the islamists in Turkey are driving the country west and the army is trying to pull the country east, this gives you an idea what is brewing under the cover in Turkey,
I think Ertogan will fight this to the end. If he was to give up on trying to bring the country out of the grip of the establishment he would have shown signs by now.
I would not be surpised to see something dramatic happen over the next 1-2 years ( assasination and/or coup ).
see what they did to this guy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turgut_%C3%96zal
The sick man of Europe is as sick as ever…
Yiannis,
What am I on? Just on “repeat” I am afraid
…………………………
Troodo,
According to you truth might seem to be beyond my perception but arguments seem to be beyond your capabilities.
You accuse me of all sorts of things, yet you never once presented an argument against my believes and in favour of yours.
The point is that while you accuse me of utter hatred for Turks, I believe that I am just stating facts. Show me I am wrong and I might start wondering if you are right.
So, can you please tell me the great things your nation did? Can you please tell me why I am wrong? Can you please tell me any contributions you made to civilization apart from helping establishing the meaning of words like genocide, killings, destruction and other such words?
You stole, killed, destroyed, claimed to be yours what is not (which is one step above simple stealing)…you are not even capable of having a democratic state in the 21st century, yet you find me offensive for reminding you.
So, am I wrong?
BK
Yiannis
It is sad when someone gets stuck in the past.
Do you remember flower power – make love not war
the overuse of whacky backy. I think that answers
your question in post 4339
Troodo
Your English is very good and I do not write Greek or Turkish
but have a small understanding of both. Dont be petty Yiannis
you are better than that.
Kiri you say – The point is that while you accuse me of utter hatred for Turks, I believe that I am just stating facts. Show me I am wrong and I might start wondering if you are right.
Not a lot of point really, done that, been there, not had one GC addmit they are wrong on anything. Still, try this one.
The technique of inoculation was not invented by Jenner and Pasteur but was devised in the Muslim world and brought to Europe from Turkey by the wife of the English ambassador to Istanbul in 1724. Children in Turkey were vaccinated with cowpox to fight the deadly smallpox at least 50 years before the West discovered it.
I am sure you will make a fool of yourself again – feel free.
Trood , you are talking crap again .
Inoculation was discovered Edward Jenner 1749-1823 didn’t you learn that at school.
Turkey being so ..good in medicine and yet this third world nation has a life expectancy 8 years less than that of Cyprus .On the UN list of life expectancy of nations Cyprus is at number 30 and Turkey at number 98 !!!
Plonker who is the fool you nincompooooooo !!!
Polly , do you have a sense of humour , well you should after all you purchased in the pseudo state !!!
May I also add that your sense of Humour surpasses my expectations more so with this bit :
“Troodo
Your English is very good ”
His English might be good , according to you , but his knowledge on who discovered Injections is somewhat clouded by his commitment to the “trnc”
So that you also know some facts Polly, the T/Cs as well as the G/Cs are so far advanced that the Anatolian Turks have an average life span some 8 years shorter than that of the Cypriots. Generally speaking the more advanced a nation is the longer the life span tends to be .We have absolutely nothing to learn from Turkey , their culture , their civil structures and the country’s overall infrastructure is still very much that of a third world country.
Neither do we have much to learn from the mainland Greeks .
As Cypriots we have progressed steadily since independence becoming one of Europe’s most affluent nations. Our Senior Citizens receive on average some 30% more in benefits than the UK senior citizens. A couple in Cyprus receive 1300 Euros monthly !!
Do we like Turkey ? Well the majority of T/Cs don’t like Turkey and visa versa why should we !!
The following article from the T/C Newspaper ” Afrika” could be educational to some plonkers here.
http://www.afrikagazetesi.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1297
Quote:
Title Deeds for Turkish Property in the South
The Greek Cypriot administration will also give title deeds to refugees from the north who are living in Turkish property in the south. But these title deeds will not be fraudulent, like those given to refugees from the south in the north. In the south, the exact opposite of the practice in the north is being implemented. In the north, those to whom Greek Cypriot property was distributed were given fraudulent title deeds and now the Immovable Property Commission is paying compensation to the Greek Cypriots who are the real owners of this property. In the south, on the other hand, before title deeds are issued to Greek Cypriots living in Turkish property, the property is being purchased from Turkish Cypriots. The Greek Cypriot Interior Minister Silikiotis has confirmed that they are attempting to purchase Turkish Cypriot property so that refugees may be given title deeds. Silikiotis, saying that efforts were being made to give title deeds to all refugees, pointed out that it was legal for them to purchase Turkish property and noted that this property was not being bought at a high price. Purchases for the most part consist of Turkish land on which refugee housing has been built.
I knew I was wasting my time – scattering seeds on barren ground comes to mind.
Here is what Turkey is all about.
US, Turkish officials get physical in Qatar
Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:06:21 GMT
Hillary Clinton (L) and Recep Tayyip Erdogan discussed regional issues in Doha.
A fight broke out between high-ranking US and Turkish officials at a meeting held between Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Qatar.
The fight was reported between the US ambassador to Qatar and an advisor to the Turkish prime minister at the end of a 20-minute meeting between Clinton and Erdogan on Monday.
The altercation took place after the US envoy entered the room to remind those present to close the meeting as the time was over.
In response, Erdogan’s adviser said, “It is not for you to judge the importance of our meeting, you offend our country,” the Turkish daily Today’s Zaman reported.
The quarrel led to physical confrontation and the two diplomats were separated with difficulty.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=118689§ionid=351020205
I think this answers the question as to what kind of people Turks are. 3rd world indeed!
I think this answers the question as to what kind of people Turks are. 3rd world indeed!
stelios ioannou. That would be your interpretation of course.
No no no Yiannis
You have tried to cloud the issue, I was pointing out that
Troodo has a good command of written English, which he does,
maybe not as good as yours but I suspect he did not have the
advantage of living in the U.K. or having an English wife.
You know nothing about him, he may have command of other
languages as well as his mother tongue, please dont descend to the
level of other posters by attacking the use of a language on
the board especially as I know you understand everything he writes.
You naughty boy, I expect better from you.
As an aside, in the U.K. women outlive men on average by 4 years
according to Life Insurance Actuaries.
Yiannis
Please google the name Benjamin Jesty
Trood
I totally believe you regarding inoculation against cowpox.
It is often the person who brings something to the attention
of the masses who gets to recognition and it really doesnt matter
as long as it benefits mankind.
Edward Jenner was an English physician who is credited with successfully introducing the practice of vaccinating against smallpox. Jenner, apprenticed to a surgeon as a boy, studied medicine briefly in London before returning to his rural hometown to open his own medical practice (1792). Following up on local lore that said dairymaids who had contracted cowpox were immune to smallpox, Jenner decided to see if he could adapt the Turkish practice of inoculation to prevent the spread and devastation of smallpox
In 1721 Lady Mary Wortley Montague, the wife of the English ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, was in Constantinople and there she saw the Turks inoculating each other.
Again the idea behind this was that if you get the disease in a mild, less debilitating form, you would not get it again.
Digest and learn, if that is possible.
An ancestor of mine, in 1760, was inoculated for smallpox.
Where was that Malcolm, Turkey?
All quiet on the Western front?
Taunton in Somerset. Inoculation dates back to 1000BC, vaccination to 1796. My Anatolian ancestors stretch a lot further back than 1760 according to a genealogical DNA test I took.
Malcolm
You sure you didnt wander into the wrong dept at the hospital
and had gynaecological DNA test instead. I know your hormones
were all over the place. Know the feeling!!!
The sample was taken from an orifice, yes.
Ouch painful……………………..
my mouth!
Like I said, painful for the nurse!!
It surprises me that all you cheapskates are more proud of Turkey than the T/Cs !!
A nation that deliberated for three months , at the highest level at that , whether its women folk should wear on not a head scarf !!!
A nation that tolerates the barbaric practice of honour murders !!
A nation that denies its dark past , the Armenian genocide comes to mind .
A nation whose citizens seek refuge in the West hidden in lorries crossing over into Europe !
A nation that teaches its students that one Turk equals 1000 non Turks !!
Are you for real you lot , it seems to me you have all lost your marbles and reverted to your embryonic stage !!
Let us hail Turkey for all the great achievements that the Western world benefited by!!
I wonder if the Hippocratic oath is taken in Turkey !!!
@Thomas
Sorry for the delay man, professional obligations..
..so.. I believe that Erdogan just like any other politician is drawn by his economic interests or those of his patrons. Europe as Greece has proven to us is a confectionery for corrupted politicians to exploit. So as long as Turkey is a Democratic country someone will wonna put his finger to the honey-jar.
Now about the Greek phenomenon.
The real question i believe is not whether Greece fits or not to the EU standards. I believe It is whether EU laws and institutions are to be trusted my friend. First of all those are the laws and institutions that accepted Greece to EURO in the first place and furthermore I mean think about it. If a Tiny country like Greece With the corrupted past of a granny-prostitute manages to ”fool” Eurostat with false data, Who can say with certainty that other Countries way more powerful than Greece, Countries like German or Britain are not bullshitting us also? Who is to be trusted any more? Clearly Eurostat and precautionary measures are not enough. The way i see it, There is a Huge EU problem here. Its not just the ”Greek problem”. Today is Greece, tomorrow?
One might say the way Europe works allowed Greek politicians to borrow all that money in the name of Greek youth. And where all that money went anyways? I ve been to Greece i saw nothing worth 495billions. Maybe we must start checking bank accounts in Switzerland? I don’t know.. The sure thing is local politicians-business men are able to easily steal Euros and get away with it. The current system just not Works. Its just to socialized.
I believe Countries that are part of EURO must find a different way to coordinate. Maybe all public infrastructure and military programs of that Countries must be formed by a central government of some sort. Since we share the same currency then we are practically part of the same country so someone must have a final say to the spending of local governments. We cannot just allow to a local corrupted politician like Karamanlis to jeopardize the future of our currency.
->In America The local-State authorities cannot just borrow money for whatever reason. All public spending decisions especially for infrastructures are taken by the feds.
Troodo,
“The technique of inoculation was not invented by Jenner and Pasteur but was devised in the Muslim world and brought to Europe from Turkey……..”
I believe I made it very clear that I was referring to Turks and not to Muslims in general, unless of course you want me to say “well done Turks for not destroying the technique”.
Ok, well done Turks for not destroying the technique and for not destroying St. Sophia (apart from making a mosque !).
You are a truly remarkable nation.
Nevertheless you do know that I love you all !
Make love, not war,
BK
PS. Do you really believe that you are not 3rd world? Sorry mate but the term “4rth world” does not exist even though had it existed you would indeed not be 3rd world.
If a Turkish Cypriot applies for return of land in the South
cannot produce title deeds, what checks will the ROC make to
ascertain for instance whether the applicant has received
GC land in the North under the points system, sold that land
and is looking for another payout? There is a 99% chance
that the land in the north would have been sold illegally
(allegedly) to an ex pat.
I ask because rumours are rife that this is happening.
Kyriacos my friend,
I agree with everything you said. My difficulty is that it is a goal more then reality. My attempt was not to be critical of Greece in and of itself. Rather, to take the information at hand using it to reflect upon the Cyprus Solution and Turkey’s involvement.
The direction by the EU and ROC has been that Turkey wants to join the EU and in this there is leverage over Turkey to come to a solution with Cyprus, and then through the EU a legal framework and course of action. As I said in the last post, I think that leverage is fading with Turkey’s EU situation. In addition, I do not see the Turkish side looking for resolution. As a matter of fact with the exception of being isolated economically, in all other things they would rather not come back together. The ROC would like to come back together but on terms that the North has not yet agreed to. The great hope has been the EU, but in my opinion a false hope. Without that formula a new paradigm will need to come forth.
In all of this talk of resolution, there is little that addresses security. The TC I know are truly afraid of being mixed back together. And I would imagine maybe the GC are too. Maybe when a generation passes, with that will pass some of the fear. The problem though is the younger folks do not know the other side and all both sides have been taught is hate. Whereas the older TC can speak Greek the younger ones cannot. As a new generation comes to power in the North, what is the impetus to go to resolution?
I ask rhetorically, how has this been a basis for a road to resolution? As I said before, though there is not active fighting, the war never finished.
In my opinion, going forward, if the onus is put upon Turkey nothing is going to happen. When they took the island and then backed off to the current line they meant something, unless their generals were extremely inept and in this respect I would not underestimate them. I do not think the legal framework through the EU is going to mean much. That is why the ROC needs what I call a “game changer” if they want the process to go forward.
”The TC I know are truly afraid of being mixed back together. And I would imagine maybe the GC are too”
As long as propaganda that focuses on the crimes of ”the others” and not ours exist. Then Fear will be a part of cyprus problem indefinitely..
Now, on the other things you say i agree 100% on everything with you mate, except from one Part.
Yes Turkey might be just fine with the current situation and for sure can live without europe, but i believe TC really stand on the other side and want to join us in the EU no matter what. Its either with us and the EU or they know that 10-20 years from now they will end up just a decadent Turkey shire with more Kurds than actual TC, a minority once again in there own land. Its not just about the legal problems of Trnc there also some practical limitations here There are just to few of them to be trully independent. So i believe there is hope. I do not believe that the average TC has a problem on giving the land that he does not legally owns to his former owner in exchange for his old land in the south that probably now worths twice as much, Just imaging that nearly all of LArnacas coast line belongs to TC. We talk about 100 of millions here. Why wouldn’t they wonna trade?
Maybe i am a little bit overoptimistic here.. but it is what it is..
I truly believe that if Talat pisses on his motherland the way Christofias and many GC do, a solution with a prosperous future is surely ahead of us. Up to 10 billion left the Greek banks, went to Switzerland and Cyprus, from November 2009 to date
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.enet.gr%2F%3Fi%3Dnews.el.ellada%26id%3D130271&sl=el&tl=en
Almost all of this article is plagiarized from the Cyprus Mail, not “by” Daniel Freeman at all. (See http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers.com/2010/02/14/orams-decision-could-open-pandoras-box/id=003919)
The section from “After 1974″ up until “part of the new one” is almost exactly word-for-word lifted from the Cyprus Mail. Although it gives credit to the Cyprus Mail, the citing and crediting is awful. Admittedly, it includes a belated “According to the Cyprus Mail”, but almost all of the ensuing sentences are unquoted and barely changed from the original, breaking any high school-level plagiarism standard.
It seems only the first paragraph is really the author’s own writing.
Kyriacos
I would imagine you are absolutely right that TCs would be more
than happy to give back the land belonging to the GCs in the north
in return for their land in the south back. Why wouldnt they
since they have already profited by selling it illegally to the
ex patsy’s and you are offering them the opportunity to have
their cake and eat it. How do you think the Orams got into
the situation they did – you think they forced the TC to sell
the land to them?? The YOU I use is like the royal WE and not
personal to you. There has to some way to stop this happening.
Stephen, brilliant! A free newspaper without advertising, unpaid writers, what do you expect? I’m amazed that you would expect any different except as you say it’s “almost word-for-word.” And your point is? Perhaps you would like to write a well researched, original article for us for free? No? Perhaps that answers your criticism.
BTW, your link doesn’t work and his name is Dominic.
Polly i believe here are where things get really complicate, its either EUrope will have to step in and provide a solution to the injustice by giving money to either one of the two sides (ex-patsy’s or GC) Or Turkey will have to be forced to interpretive, comply and respect the international law the way all other countries understand it and either give money to fix the injustice or Put those TC in Jail. (legally even Britain can put those TC in jail) (..sue the bastards for selling you illegal title deeds). But again.. its not that simple… The same with MRa’s case.. if their british court decision cannot be applied in the trnc that might complicate even further the cyprus problem.
Another solution is i guess to give to the refugees that lost their land this way TC land?
But wouldn’t be this ”amnesty” encouraging more crimes like this?
If as we talk TC are still trying to sell GC properties to ex patsy’s because they know that a political solution will legalize their crimes then
all these conversations, the dreams that we do, are just a big illusion festival..
Thanks for your reply Kyriacos. Aint life complicated?
Take people out of the equation and it would be perfect.
Stephen – I think we all worked that out, no one claimed it as their own – saves us a couple of quid on buying the Cyprus Mail,
I’m all for it. Carry on the good work Malcolm
Need an abuse top up so a small light hearted quiz to liven the debate, please feel free to add your own:
Has Mr Apostolides:
A.Indicated when he may take up residence yet? Y/N
B.Opened an account for the Orams pensions to be paid into? Y/N
C.Drawn up his own plans for a new house on the site? Y/N
D.Taken advice from Debt Collection agencies? Y/N
E.Applied for PTP in the TRNC? Y/N
F.Ordered some replacement Olive trees? Y/N
G.Opened a lira account in Girne? Y/N
H.Checked out the import tax payable on his car in the TRNC? Y/N
I.Checked if his RoC house is on TC land? Y/N
J.Given up hope of ever recieving a penny? Y/N
J.None of the above? Y/N
Hey all, especially my friends Yiannis, Get Real and Stelios…
Sorry I’ve been out of touch for a while – been enjoying the beauty of the view of the Med from my patio in my villa in my village of Esentepe. Couldn’t be bothered with the internet…
But back to work now. With regard to this thread and the Orams’ situation, although most of it’s been done to death by now, there is one question I’ve put before that none of these extremist GCs have been game to tackle.
The best information I’ve been able to glean about the Orams’ villa is that it is situated on approximately 10% of Mr Apostolides’ land, and 7 Turkish Cypriots have built houses on the other 90%. If any of this is incorrect, I’d be happy to be given the references to demonstrate the accurate figures.
Given that Mr Apostolides has been quoted a number of times as saying that all the poor fellow wanted was to get his land back, my question is why did he only sue for 10% of it?
Kyriacos, Someday I hope that maybe we can sit and have dinner and discuss in a proper way. I would like that.
You are more optimistic than I. And that is a good thing. I do not think Turkey is as enlightened as you believe. And also, I do not see the desire to get into the EU by TC as broadly as you do. The ones I associate with do not want it at any cost and that threshold is fairly low. That is why I appreciate others opinions as you may have a closer track to true opinion of TC’s than I.
When I open NCFP today and read the current articles on GC getting “Certificates of Ownership” that is not the Game-Changer I was thinking about. I know that maybe it is not as simple as the article suggests, but it does represent an ideology that in my opinion does not bring the sides closer. And I do not think it fits in with your overall philosophy either when earlier you said, “Listen Thomas if you ask me, yes of-course Cyprus must at once restore the title deeds to all TC with no conditions whatsoever…..”
Can we compare the actions of an legal government–the ROC–with that of an unrecognized one? The EU will need to be able to this or lose all credibility.
And on a broader question. Is a person always a TC or a GC even if they have lived off the island for years? Why do I ask this question? What about the hundreds of thousands that live off the island. We assume the TC or GC population is that of 35 years ago. What would you estimate the population of TC that are already EU citizens?