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Pauline Read on Are the Cyprus talks reaching crisis point?
Change comes whether we like it or not. And in the case of Cyprus, it’s certainly been a long time coming. But do recent events regarding the Cyprus issue point to changes on the horizon?
Well, this week the Greek Cypriot House of Representatives approved a resolution to reject any form of Guarantor powers for Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriot Parliament swiftly passed their own counter-resolution to make sure that the guarantees of Turkey still remain in place. Worryingly, the lack of action by the British Government to protect the rights of Turkish Cypriots and recent comments made by the British Minister for Europe appear to show that Britain, as another Guarantor of Cyprus, has little knowledge of the real Cyprus problem, so it falls to Turkey to maintain itself as the only Guarantor willing to help the Turkish Cypriots. Prime Minister Eroğlu has already stated he will not allow any solution that doesn’t approve the Guarantees of Turkey. Is this the final nail in the coffin for the solution talks?
Then we have the North Cyprus presidential elections coming up on 18th April. The Democratic Party is calling for President Talat to withdraw from the talks during the election ban on the run up to the big day. But what will happen during the elections? Will President Talat announce his candidacy? Well, it is rumoured that he will be standing as an independent candidate, but in the political world, exactly how independent is independent? Prime Minister Eroğlu, who is the only person so far to announce his candidacy for President, is known for his more hard-lined approach to any solution on the Cyprus problem. According to the election timetable, applications for candidates must be made by March 12th so watch this space! Eroğlu is tipped to win, but what does this mean for us? Well, I guess elections all around the world are the same. After the post is confirmed and the dust settles we will have to wait and see what happens, but the potential for change is there.
Recently in the South there have been disputes between the coalition governments. Some members wanted out of the coalition because of their disagreement with how the solution talks were being dealt with. Now the DIKO party have voted to stay in, even though their leader, Marios Garoyian, believes that the results from the long negotiations have actually achieved “zero” results. We also have the rotating Presidency issue. According to recent surveys conducted on the South side, the vast majority of Greek Cypriots were against having a rotating Presidency with Turkish Cypriots. I wonder why! Polls in both North and South Cyprus also suggest that it’s becoming more unlikely that people would vote for reunification.
So let’s turn to Europe, which appears to be in chaos. The European Parliament is trying it’s hardest to put a spanner in the works by calling for Turkish troops to be withdrawn from North Cyprus. Either they have no idea what is really going on in Cyprus, or they don’t care. Turkey has always maintained that it will not abandon North Cyprus in its bid to join the EU. And to be honest, why does Turkey even want to join? Economic analysts suggest that Turkey is very strong and they have weathered the global recession well. But their stance on Cyprus means that their progress to join the EU will now be dead in the water. In contrast to Turkey, the Eurozone is falling apart. Many EU member states are in serious trouble. And with recent calls for Greece to be given its marching orders, it all questions exactly how long the Eurozone will last.
So far the solution talks appear to have gone nowhere. Is it now just a question of time before they are officially called off? Well, maybe it’s a waiting game. No one wants to be the first to walk away from the negotiating table. But things can only continue for so long before saying enough is enough. Lately we’ve been hearing more about a Plan B for North Cyprus. If the talks do fail, is this going to be the year to implement it? Will it be the year that partition of becomes officially recognized? After all, the North has really been living under partition since 1974 but without the benefits.
I think this year will be a positive one for North Cyprus. The continual tantrums by the South every time another country includes North Cyprus in trade, exhibitions, sporting events, or political arenas are well known. But he who shouts the loudest doesn’t always get what he wants.
For reviews and purchases of my latest novels: www.sibelhodge.com
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Yiannis you and being repectful especially to the female of the
species is a contridiction in terms.
The euro may be riding high against some weaker currencies but
against the lovely lire – not soooo. Everyone, except you seems
to realise it is over valued anyway.
When will you use the correct terminology – it is very reasonably
priced skates – it all sounds a bit fishy to me.
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Congratulations Sibelle for a very good and accurate article. I never take any notice of the fanatical Greek Cypriots who excel in lies and insults. Let the EU deal with the cheats and you can count on the Germans to deal with it properly.
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Yiannis
The C£ no longer exists.
If you crossed the border to the North yesterday you would
have got 2.0827 tl to the EURO
1.5376 tl to the Dollar
both were stronger than this a month ago.
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YS wrote, “THE RoC APPROVED A RESOLUTION REJECTING THE DEMANDS BY TURKEY TO BE GIVEN LEGAL GAURANTOR STATUS ! Get your facts right.”
Get YOUR fact right YS, “the House of Representatives has stressed that Cyprus, just like any other EU member state, must not have either guarantors or rights of intervention by outside powers. In a resolution approved unanimously during Thursday’s plenary session.”
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sibel, as a regular vistor to the north, i won’t say where i stay in case somebody jumps in and says that my property. what’s happening in greece at the moment, riots mass strikes demonstrations, will eventually happen in south cyprus,i’m afraid the french and germans have let the greeks down, so much for the other euro zone countries stepping in to help, i really do hope the euro zone collapses whatever people think of GB at least we control our own fiscal policies, ie interest rates and vat, which is lower than the euro zone, also we don’t have brussels on our heels. All brussels is worried about is their precious euro. i feel if cyprus had stayed out of the euro and the eu, they might be enjoying a better economy than they have now, it’s become so expensive there now, and tourists are giving the countries with the euro a miss. Not long ago in spain i went to the bank to exchange £ sterling, the rate at the time was €1.12, however all the bank would give me was 90 cents to the pound, last time in greece, when hiring a car they wanted pounds instead of euros, as did a lot of shops. one old greek guy once said ” when we had the drachma we weren’t wealthy but we were happy, now that we the euro we’re neither, now that the ROC government have given in the the petrol station retailers, petrol price will no doubt take a hike, so you could expect a steady stream of traffic your way.
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YS, but the Parliament rejected all rights of guarantors just as Sybil stated.
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I think is quite obvious that euro needed to go down in order for the global economy to start moving again.
Germany had a pretty hard time exporting mercedes to the british or the americans (or anywhere else beside euro counties) And at the same time British couldn’t visit the euro counties like they used to. Germans are a bit tightfisted to take the role of the British in the EU So.. everything was a mess.
Euro was an anomaly that needed to be fixed. It was a win – win situation for all big players.
Furthermore
In the process countries with euro-reserve like benelux countries and Germany can even make more money by selling their euros in order to buy them back in a lower price few months later. -easy money-
Now.. about the Guarantor powers.. (spooky music on the background please)
What’s Really Killing cyprus talks right now? All the quibbling from both sides about guarantees or not guarantees or FIR or not FIR OR whatever else is basically just a distraction from the main question, which is: Do you wanna live in a united county or NOT?.
I mean..
Why can’t we just agree for a timeschedule on that thing?
The guarantees of Turkey will be preserved in the TC state after the resolution (not in the whole island of-course.) and the European guarantees in the GC part.
And every 5-10 years the whole thing will be set to a referendum to the TC community again and again to decide whether they want to change their turkish guarantor to a european or not.. (…
I believe.. its a bit pathetic and ridiculous to discuss and rediscuss those things over and over and over and over again.. Stop Gibbering and Act.
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How bizarre that comments from an opposing viewpoint are hidden’ when they are only one vote less?
Is this the sort of future Sibel would be wanting for TCs !?
As ever, a one-sided and biased view of events:
1/ A Greek Cypriot would point out that that they think Britain let THEM down by not responding to either the Greek Military Junta sponsored Coup or the subsequent Turkish Invasion / ‘peace movement’ [where more Cypriots died in 8 weeks than at any time since (at least) the Ottoman invasion ].
2/ The article ‘assumes’ that any future TC representative at the talks will have a ‘free hand’ – they won’t.. a historical fact..
3/ It assumes that the TCs have been ‘hard done’ by the UN EU etc,. following the invasion and subsequent UDI – ignoring the fact that this was ‘exactly’ what their, then, leader wanted – Taksim – and thinking there will be vast changes in attitude to ‘TRNC’ is baseless in fact ( or even conjecture ) as long as the UN Security Council Resolutions remain in place and the ‘rump’ RoC have the support – in principle’ of Russia and China.
The only deal on the table for all Cypriots is akin to the ‘dreaded’ Annan Plan… Irrespective of who wins the right to represent TCs or who runs the ‘rump’ RoC or how the economies fair.. the future will continue to be decided by rulings of Courts outside Cyprus on Property ownership .. I predict these rulings will ultimately bring about ‘realism’ on both ‘sides’.
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Oh thank god, we’ve finally got a visit from sixems, the ultimate purveyor of truth, justice and the GC way.
“As ever, a one-sided and biased view of events:” Boy, did you get that right! You are the original GC apologist, mate. THEY need YOU to tell us what they’d point out?
I’m really glad you’ve appeared to advise me of all those assumptions made in the article…I doubt I would have been able to sort it all out for myself…
As ever, your last pontificating paragraph contains little substance in its cloud of waffle. What exactly is the “deal on the table”? And the “dreaded” Annan Plan – correct me if I’m wrong here, sixems, but weren’t you a strong supporter of that one?
The future “will continue to be decided”…continue? I guess that means it is being decided now, by outside court rulings? The only one of note of course, is the Orams’, and tell me sixems, how exactly has the future of the TRNC altered on the ground because of that ruling?
Can you define “realism” in appropriate context, sixems? Realistically?
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Dear Ian Edwards,
Firstly, I’d like to apologise for the fact that one ‘negative vote’ means many people may pass your response by
That said, may be they are doing you a ‘favour’ … ‘GC apologist’??
Viz: like being a supporter of a bi-zonal, federated solution an makes me ‘popular with many GCs ! I would request readers not to ‘dislike’ Ian’s response as it is more ‘fun’ …
The ‘Court rulings’ *I* was referring to were those of the ECHR in regard to the future of Turkey’s local remedy.. the ‘IPC’ ..
Hope that clears up any ‘confusion’…
‘Realism’
1/ expectation of large scale return of land /property
2/ expectation of ‘recognition of ‘TRNC’
How’s that for starters ?
BTW I ticked ‘like’ to highlight your ‘folly’…
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M6 wrote, “How bizarre that comments from an opposing viewpoint are hidden’ when they are only one vote less? Is this the sort of future Sibel would be wanting for TCs !? ”
Majority voting in a democracy means that a single vote can prevent a minority from being able to express themselves in government. In fact in the UK, as you probably know, a system of gerrymandering can actually take power from the majority. We have a simple system here, if the majority dislike your comment then they can reduce it to a link. All this does is shows what the power of a majority, e.g. 1963 in Cyprus, can lead to. On NCFP, however, a simple act of choice, through clicking on a link, reveals the comment.
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YS, I think you know that I don’t like what the majority can do to a minority through the use of voting systems. It is an ancient Greek system developed in Athens and based upon the idea of manipulating votes in order to dominate others. Because only citizens could vote then controlling citizenship controlled government too. Taoism however…
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YS, your analysis of democracy is too simplistic. A country starts with certain rules about who can vote, in the south for example a non-Cypriot resident, I believe, has to wait 5 years before given a vote. Wealthy/powerful people then buy/manipulate the media and through it manipulate the attitudes of voters, e.g. to quote bbc.co.uk (July 2004) “Mr Annan singled out the Cypriot leader for criticism in his comments, saying Mr Papadopoulos had not accurately explained the contents of the plan to his people in a key television address.” For a vote-based democratic system to work there has to be a Constitution which prevents voting on unconstitutional matters, e.g. Makarios’ vote to actually change the 1960 constitution in 1963 would be unconstitutional…
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Hey sixems,
Your disjointed ramblings are hard enough to decipher without having to contend with all those silly apostrophes, inverted commas and asterisks you love to spray everywhere. They really don’t add anything to your arguments.
But “‘Realism’
1/ expectation of large scale return of land /property”? You’re kidding, right? Large scale return?? If you believe that keep your eyes peeled for flying pigs.
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How come RoC which is only %0.2 of the EU population, getting ready for EU Presidency?
Or does that mean power sharing?
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ES,
maybe you should worry more on how you wont ever get to be part of the EU. and for good reason too,
so long as you live on other ppls land and you do not apologise for what you have done, you will continue living in obscurity.
I trust you are used to living like that and you proabably dont care.
try adding 30 years to your current situation and you will see that what is best for you is to give what you have taken by force back and accept the fact that you are indeed a minority on this island.
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ME said, “try adding 30 years to your current situation”
Now would that be worse than taking 36 years off?
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mc,
not exactly sure what u mean by that,
we have already “bitten the bullet”.
we were down now we are ok. we lost alot but we have rebuilt.
would we be better off if we hadnr gone through this? sure.
but as we are, we have nothing left to loose..
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ME, what I’m saying is that 36 years ago TCs were in a far worse situation than today
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Masta
30 years on – I am looking into my crystal ball (the gypsy polly)
oh no, the Eu imploded 15 years ago – Greece and ROC refused
entry into the Asian Union, Turkey vetoed their applications -
oo-er. TRNC no longer exists – annexed to Turkey. U.K adopted
the dollar.
Time to wake up – so sayeth the queen of misdirection.
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So, YS, by your definition Russia is democratic and not a dictatorship. BTW, have you ever been to a supermarket and walked out without paying for an item because it said “buy one get one free”? Of course not, you know that the word FREE in that case means you are free to take that item IF you buy the other one. Well YS, you are free to post here IF you are not abusive. Geddit?
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You’ve got me worried now G_R if you think Sibel looks like Ronald MacDonald either you need to get your eyes tested or I need to give up kebabs and start eating fast food!!!
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Sibel, thanks for the article. The part about Turkey going their own way cannot be stressed enough. Everybody thinks Turkey will bow because they want to get into the EU. I think those days are long gone and for any country to base foreign policy on Turkey wanting to get into the EU is building upon sand.
Kyriacos, you are right on in your comments!!
People have to get serious to move forward. However, the TRNC is their own worst enemy. The corrupt government actually feeds off of this stalemate. Had they gotten serious and said we are going to make this the best “damn” economy we can the ROC would be sitting in the red wagon behind them being pulled along in these talks. We are asking two countries that cannot get their own acts together to join back up.
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Hey Malcolm,
How come I always have a sad face and you give YS the scholarly face?
I am a happy person!
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Thomas, hard as it is to believe, the faces are randomly allocated.
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My dear Thomas , it takes a great scholar to ..recognize an even …greater one !!!!
ps. I hope that your SOH is as sharp as …mine !
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YS, I am a left-handed dyslectic, so I may get there but it takes awhile!
So don’t call me to testify on your behalf to what is a great scholar. But remember, we are out of the box thinkers if only because we never lived in the box in the first place.
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Yiannis, I’m sorry to disabuse you once again, but your claims are simply untrue.
You may not use foul language, but be assured you ARE abusive and insulting, and are most definitely NOT polite! Your constant stream of repetitive nonsense is the reason you are derided and ignored, NOT because you are a GC. Others who post moderately and reasonably are treated differently, which all objective readers can see.
You continue to gush out the same old nonsense day after day, and simply are unable to comprehend that you are wrong. I doubt there is ONE ex-pat who “reviles”, “detests” or “hates” GCs generically. Some of the small-minded extremists, such as Get Real, Kyri, John Akritas et al, draw revulsion because of their language and sentiments, as would have Makarios and Osama Bin Laden.
It seems to me that you have an inflated sense of your own significance.
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Thomas
I think you did ok in the face lottery. Mine looks cross eyed
and permanently shocked; at least I am a star with some extra
points……
Yiannis
You use the word cheapskate as an insult, and plonker, senile old
fool, one brain cell are not insults?? An educated gentleman would would not resort to insults when his argument had merit.
Need I say more.
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Just a stab in the dark, Yiannis…
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Here you are folks , Malcolms solution to all your nightmares !!
I think its incredible , what a masterpiece. The cheapskates defending their …stolen properties !!
http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/31546.asp
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YS, I am sure that none of these ideas would need to be implemented as from now on GCs will follow the same path as TCs and will accept compensation. However, if some GCs decide to take the Mr A route then I believe that foreigners who will not be compensated for their loss should take action against these GCs. To remind you YS, GCs who have assets in the north are able to accept compensation for their loss, foreigners who have been sold these assets cannot. I know your racist position too well YS – punish the foreigners!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Hi Polly, at least your face has some character, but I agree with you, your eyes and mouth just make me laugh….mine is just sad.
Malcolm gets the wise old wizard!
Quick question, did you folks get to watch much of the Olympics there? I thought it was one of the best I have ever seen. Canada did a great job!
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If you want to choose your own face then you can do so at http://en.gravatar.com. The picture you chose will be associated with the email address you chose.
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Thanks Malcolm, I am just puffing smoke…we have to keep this place light-hearted. People get so heavy with these issues.
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Polly, the dollar is going down. Don’t tie your pony to that post. We have a government that does not know what they are doing and we have a debt train that we cannot sustain.
ME, I have to apologize as you wrote me a nice response in “Tit for Tat” and I replied, but I have come to realize that if you turn your computer off too quickly the post does not take. So for this I am sorry, but thank you for your thoughts. They were well thought out and it really does give me an insight where you are coming from.
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The wise old wizard is Lao Tzu, who said “one who is too insistent on his own views, finds few to agree with him.”
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I am watching this Turkish situation with the military and it is getting more serious by the day. I am not sure this is going to end up well. They are just gutting the military. There are ramifications for the Cyprus Situation here but I am still working up in my mind how these will play out.
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Thomas
Yes we get some coverage of the Olympic Games here and yes
Canada should be proud, they certainly know how to stage the event.
Good hockey result for them, very close final.
Its okay Thomas, I only write some of my posts to tease Yiannis, an olympic sport you could say. I watch the dollar closely.
I shall be going to Yellowstone Park in June, the dollars I shall
use as spending money will come from my account I keep for this purpose and which I got $2 to the £.
Sorry you werent able to get your response posted on Tat for Tat
article – it seems to be closed now.
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Quoting Malc channing: >>Majority voting in a democracy means that a single vote can prevent a minority from being able to express themselves in government<<
But it doesn't stop a newspaper or a forum discussion topic hearing all sides..
What a TERRIBLE attempt at 'rationalising' bias..
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Dear ‘ Ian Edwards’
>>your disjointed ramblings are hard enough to decipher without having to contend with all those silly apostrophes, inverted commas and asterisks you love to spray everywhere. They really don’t add anything to your arguments.<>You’re kidding, right? Large scale return?? If you believe that keep your eyes peeled for flying pigs.<<
Poor chap… I was commenting on *unrealistic* expectations by GCs..
To borrow a quote from Dennis Healy – being ‘attacked’ by you is “like being ‘savaged’ by a dead sheep”
If you were a little more attentive and a little less too quick to jump in you might not make an *ss of yourself !!
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6M , as you are fully aware the forum that I call the Senile CY44 will ban anyone that has opposing views to those that the moderators have , so unless one joins the senile fools that post on the forum one is immediately banned. The 3 ladies representing AGA have just been booted out , the poor old codgers cant stand the truth it makes the uncomfortable and reminds them of how diabolically stupid they were in “investing ” in a part of the world that is universally considered as a part of the RoC sovereignty under Turkish occupation. The facts worry them , bearing in mind of course that most are “firing ” on one brain cell, how else would they have considered to reside in the occupied parts.
They have been ripped off right let and centre , no legal recourse since the legislative bodies are corrupt to the bone. Yet these cheapskates march on regardless just as the Orams did…
I can tell you they hate me with their entire …single brain cell , I suppose they can sense that I find them reprehensible or rather obnoxious might be more to the point !!
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m6, “What a TERRIBLE attempt at ‘rationalising’ bias”
I agree that you’re biased and as a rare visitor has not had to put up with the abuse that some posters have put on the site. Rather than have to personally moderate the 6,500 comments posted so far I’ve left it to the readers.
“But it doesn’t stop a newspaper or a forum discussion topic hearing all sides”
Precisely, you click a second link to read the disliked comment. The first click is to open up ALL comments, did that cause you a problem too M6?
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YS & M6
Read a little Burns it might help
“Oh wad some power the giftie gie us To see oursel’s as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us, And foolish Plonker notion ”
We are the others and we all see you fine, what is it you see?
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Give it a rest Mr. ANGRY no one hates you – waste of energy.
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Hi there sixems,
Thanks for your sympathy, but I’m a little puzzled by your attempt at explanation. I asked you for your definition of “realistic” – not UNrealistic – and got…exactly… this: “‘Realism’
1/ expectation of large scale return of land /property
2/ expectation of ‘recognition of ‘TRNC’”
Now curse me for an illiterate and uneducated fool if you will, even liken me to a dead sheep, but nowhere in your “explanation” can I see that it comments on UNrealistic expectations by GCs, no matter how much attention I pay to it.
Someone clearly has made an ass of himself, sixems.
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I think as far as property is concerned the GCs seem to feel that, in the case of TC land in the south, compensation should be the norm. The proof of this can be found in http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/title-deeds-all-refugees/20100219 where Interior Minister Neoclis Sylikiotis explains that refugees living on TC land will be given title deeds in the expectation that the TC owners will accept compensation.
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