The Immovable Property Commission is vindicated

39 Responses to “The Immovable Property Commission is vindicated”

1. Dominic Freeman

   05/03/2010 at 5:21 pm

   Yes, it’s a copy/paste summary. No, don’t have time to do more but I’m sure you’ll love something to comment about!!!!

   #5015
2. VinceHugo

   05/03/2010 at 5:50 pm

   The press release is here ;-

   http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/view.asp?item=1&portal=hbkm&action=html&highlight=Cyprus&sessionid=48131573&skin=hudoc-pr-en

   Sounds like a pretty convincing YES to the IPC.

   Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 6  0

   #5016
3. Kyriacos

   05/03/2010 at 7:11 pm

   No surprise here for me, i was expecting this call.

   Its common practice for ECHR to ask from all European citizens to first use their domestic judicial alternatives and THEN appeal to ECHR.

   Up to now GC were able to go directly to the ECHR thus ”violating” the fundamental law of ECHR only because there were no other alternatives since Turkey said cyprus problem is solved by land exchange.

   ECHR asked from Turkey several times to create a judicial court that GC can use (if they want) to ask and take compensations for the loss of their properties since land exchange was not a fair argument (1/3 of GC land vs 1/16 of TC land)

   So Turkey ”complied” and went ahead to create IPC.

   IPC is considered by the ECHR as a TURKISH JUDICIAL NOTION
   (since North Cyprus is considered under Turkish occupation. )

   So long story short GC must first go to the IPC sue turkey (?) and then appeal to ECHR if they are not happy with the decision.

   The GC argument was that since IPC has very low compensation standards it can’t be accepted as a legal judicial mean. [witch is an irrelevant argument if you ask me because if low compensations were a standard for the legal existence of a court then lots of European courts (including cyprus court) must be declared illegal as well.
   Just last month Cyprus government sent me a 10,000 euro check for the rainwater damages to my house last month. I have the right to sue- then appeal- and then reappear and go to the ECHR if i don't like it.. ]
   so.. ECHR by a majority vote (not unanimous decision) says it doesn’t matter if IPC or any other court gives to you humiliating compensations. If people feel the compensation its not OK they can always come to us later.

   Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 9  4

   #5017
4. chet

   05/03/2010 at 11:05 pm

   this a great victory for the TRNC….After the Orams debacle this will be a bitter pill for most GC’s to swallow…

   I get the feeling that the IPC will be very busy….and also most property owners in the TRNC will sleep much better tonight knowing that the IPC will evaluate each claim and provide a fair option.The TRNC government has guaranteed any deeds and this will encourage developers and speculators alike to buy land which can only push up prices in the north….

   North Cyprus is now the place to invest in…Im sure this will annoy the die hard GC’s ….

   don’t get mad at me….just take it up with the IPC if you feel you have a legitimate claim to compensation…
   after all..the TC’s have a legitimate claim to the ROC…

   The TRNC does exist…only the blind cannot see it

   Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 9  6

   #5021
5. Kyriacos

   06/03/2010 at 12:48 am

   This court decision unlike the orams Case can actually be used to promote a solution
   its obvious that ECHR is showing us the way:

   TC you forgot about recognition (it mentions Turkish occupation 3 times)
   and
   GC forgot about legal war.

   I don’t think Turkey prefers to compensate all GC refugees/ we talk about BIllions here.
   so Turkey logically will promote a solution.
   And i don’t think GC prefer compensation rather than their actual land so they will keep pushing for a solution like they did all those years before orams case. (when they started thinking they can solve all aspects of cyprus problem to the ECHR)

   Either way even this ”bad” court decision is 100 times more advantageous for us than the ANNAN plan.

   In the Annan plan Refugees that their land was in the TC state would have automatically lost 2/3 of their land and the compensation were supposed to be given by the newROC (us) and NOT Turkey (IPC)

   So at least now Turkey will have to spend some money to fix some problems..

   @Chet

   How on earth did you came up with all those conclusions mate?

   The Court STRESSED that this decision was not to be interpreted as an obligation to make use of the IPC; the claimants could choose to await a political solution.
   Further more this case does not Undone ORAMS case nor its implications. They still are two separate court decisions that do not even share the same subject. / i am not an evil GC here/ its just wrong to mess around with lives by propagandizing inaccurate conclusions.

   The only ”save” choice for both sides and the foreigners is a political solution. This is where we need to focus in..

   Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 10  2

   #5022
6. Kyriacos

   06/03/2010 at 12:59 am

   of-course i meant forget not forgot

   Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 5  2

   #5023
7. polly

   06/03/2010 at 6:10 am

   Sense prevails – for the time being……………

   Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 7  1

   #5026
8. yiannis savvides

   06/03/2010 at 7:28 am

   Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

   Some irresponsible individual posted the following:
   “”North Cyprus is now the place to invest in…Im sure this will annoy the die hard GC’s ….”"
   Does this individual realize that the north area of Cyprus is occupied by Turkey as per the UN , EU and all other international opinion.
   No doubt many old codgers will rush in to ….invest !!!
   What a Plonker !

   Unacceptable Behavior. Constructive or Abusive: 7  11

   #5028
9. Malcolm Channing

   06/03/2010 at 7:42 am

   K, the EHCR statement that their decision “was not to be interpreted as an obligation to make use of the IPC; the claimants could choose to await a political solution” was interpreted by Chet, I believe, as meaning that, as he believed there would not be a solution in the short term, one GC property alternative would be to wait a very, very long time. Something he didn’t believe they would want to do. The Orams case MAY now become a one off and will cease to be the legal course open to GCs, in other words Brits COULD now relax and forget about their assets being seized, especially as there is no mention of trespass in the IPC’s decisions.

   Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 6  1

   #5030
10. polly

    06/03/2010 at 8:18 am

    Yiannis

    I hope ex pats wont be rushing to buy here until there is a
    settlement. That said, people will make up their own minds
    but at least they will have the present legal troubles and
    the Orams case to be guided by which is more than some of the
    earlier purchasers had.

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 6  0

    #5031
11. yiannis savvides

    06/03/2010 at 8:41 am

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Polly , I agree , more care will now be taken by anyone unwisely rushing in to invest in , and I repeat again since some of you do not want to face the irrefutable fact that the north part of Cyprus is occupied by Turkey and that the so called “trnc” isn’t recognized by any nation.Irrefutable facts .
    The plonker who wrote that anyone who does not recognize the “trnc” is blind , the words used were “The TRNC does exist…only the blind cannot see it ” is hi,self totally blind to realities . No one can deny that the north part of Cyprus exists , the legalities of the pseudo state are simply not recognized anywhere in the world.

    Unacceptable Behavior. Constructive or Abusive: 4  7

    #5034
12. Ian Edwards

    06/03/2010 at 8:56 am

    Hey Yiannis, the north part of Cyprus is as much occupied by Turkey as the south part is by Greece. In fact, I’ve heard someone in the know quietly claim that there are significantly more Greek troops in the south than Turkish troops in the north.

    Don’t you ever get tired of writing the same repetitive garbage day after day?

    We get tired of reading it…

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 11  4

    #5036
13. yiannis savvides

    06/03/2010 at 9:36 am

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Malcolm I would have expected a plausible statement coming from you. Since when did Greece invade the RoC causing the death of thousands and the displacement of more than 160 thousand , then proceeded in altering the demographics of the island while maintaining an occupying force of thousands of troops !!!
    I’m afraid your comment is non judicious , shallow and totally erroneous , I think a withdrawal would be quite in order !!

    Unacceptable Behavior. Constructive or Abusive: 3  10

    #5037
14. Malcolm Channing

    06/03/2010 at 10:06 am

    YS, I’ve made many comments; which are you referring to? Why is a mouse when it spins?

    Constructive or Abusive: 1  1

    #5038
15. yiannis savvides

    06/03/2010 at 10:15 am

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Malcolm , I’m referring to this post .
    Especially about the number of Greek troops in the RoC !!!

    “”Hey Yiannis, the north part of Cyprus is as much occupied by Turkey as the south part is by Greece. In fact, I’ve heard someone in the know quietly claim that there are significantly more Greek troops in the south than Turkish troops in the north.”"

    Unacceptable Behavior. Constructive or Abusive: 3  4

    #5040
16. polly

    06/03/2010 at 10:30 am

    Kyriacos

    I couldnt agree more – a political solution is the answer, it is no good keep sticking a plaster on the wound – lets heal it for
    everyones sake.

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 7  1

    #5042
17. chet

    06/03/2010 at 1:57 pm

    @ Kyriacos
    You wrote “The Court STRESSED…….

    Not sure why you used capitals but I am assuming because you feel that this point needs to be highlighted and holds more weight than the actual conclusion of the courts….

    The ECHR threw out the Greek Cypriot claims.They rejected the arguments.They recognised the IPC.

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 6  2

    #5055
18. Kyriacos

    06/03/2010 at 8:32 pm

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    @ chet.
    The way you interpret the decision reminds me a little bit of Those GC who interpreted the Orams case decision as the end of the political struggle to solve the cyprus problem.
    Of course this is an important decision and ofcourse it changes things..
    But you generalize and conclude into invalid arguments.
    cyprus problem is not solved yet it still needs a political solution
    ”Trnc” is not recognized and of course GC were not forced out of ECHR. (They just need to take 2 extra stops… (if you wanna be accurate)
    Ofcourse you can choose to celebrate and all- but you are loosing the big picture here..

    Unacceptable Behavior. Constructive or Abusive: 0  4

    #5078
19. polly

    07/03/2010 at 4:33 am

    I like most people realise there is a long way to go
    but at least it is a step in the right in the right direction.

    To say the TRNC does not exist is a nonsense, it is like saying
    the people who live here do not exist. It lacks international
    approval with the exception of Turkey but still has managed
    to carry on for the last 36 years, the TCs too are just ordinary
    people who have found themselves in an extraordinary situation and
    they have made the best of it.

    Whatever the solution found is, I just hope it is fair to everyone
    involved.

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 4  0

    #5084
20. Ian Edwards

    07/03/2010 at 7:23 am

    Yiannis, you complete tool, Malcolm didn’t make the comment, I did. You really are past your use-by date old man.

    Even after 50 years in the UK, you still clearly have trouble with the language. You should look in a dictionary and try to understand the difference in meaning between “occupy” and “invade”.

    My comment is a recount of something a man who was in a position of knowledge told me. Non judicious is meaningless, shallow it’s not and neither you nor anyone not part of the Turkish high command would know whether it’s erroneous.

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 4  1

    #5087
21. polly

    07/03/2010 at 10:01 am

    Ian why is Yiannis a complete tool – a tool is useful!

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 3  0

    #5091
22. yiannis savvides

    07/03/2010 at 10:16 am

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Eight of you agreed with Malcolm’s asserion that the RoC IS OCCUPIED BY….GREECE.IT GOES TO SHOW THAT ALL THAT I HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR SOME TIME IS true.
    The recent ECHR ON PROPERTY MATTERS STATES CLEARLY THE FOLLOWING :

    “The Court maintained its view that pending resolution of the illegal occupation of northern Cyprus, it was crucial that individuals nonetheless continued to receive protection of their rights on a daily basis. Even if the applicants did not live as such under the control of the “TRNC”, if there was an effective remedy available for their complaints there, the rule of exhaustion applied. This did not put in doubt the fact that the government of the Republic of Cyprus remained the sole legitimate government of Cyprus”

    No mention is made of Cyprus being illegaly occupied by Greece !!
    Yet 8 cheapskates thought that Malcolm was right in that the internationaly recognized RoC is under the occupation of Greece.!!!!God have mercy on your single brain cells !!

    Unacceptable Behavior. Constructive or Abusive: 3  5

    #5093
23. polly

    07/03/2010 at 10:21 am

    I expect God will, he’s merciful to your single brain cell, is that your complete tool?

    Have a nice Sunday.

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 4  0

    #5094
24. Malcolm Channing

    07/03/2010 at 10:42 am

    YS wrote, “Malcolm’s asserion that the RoC IS OCCUPIED BY….GREECE”
    What are you rambling about? At a guess I think you’ve been reading half a conversation with Jerry, not understood what we were talking about and then gone off on one

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 3  0

    #5096
25. yiannis savvides

    07/03/2010 at 11:02 am

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Malcolm , you addressed that particular post to me !!
    Here it is :
    Hey Yiannis, the north part of Cyprus is as much occupied by Turkey as the south part is by Greece. In fact, I’ve heard someone in the know quietly claim that there are significantly more Greek troops in the south than Turkish troops in the north.”

    DO PLEASE ACCEPT AN ERROR OF JUDGEMENT , YOU ARE MAN ENOUGH TO DO SO !

    Let me also reiterate what I have said on numerous occasions in the past.
    Greece and Turkey have been the culprits and the cancers of the Cypriot people. Both can go to hell just as long as they leave the Cypriot alone to sort out their affairs. Greece is not the motherland of the overwhelming majority of G/Cs and neither is Turkey to the majority of INDIGENOUS T/Cs .
    Our islands problems are a direct result of interference from both of this foreign countries. The Greek Junta gave Turkey the green light to invade , something she wanted to do for many years , this time she was not stopped by the USA or Brittain. The nonsense that one often sees on this media , ie Turkey intervened to put a stop to the on going massacre , which was not …going at all , I have challenged many for any links showing that 6 years before the invasion a conflict was in motion. There wasn’t hence none have challenged !!

    Unacceptable Behavior. Constructive or Abusive: 1  3

    #5097
26. Malcolm Channing

    07/03/2010 at 12:11 pm

    YS wrote, “Malcolm , you addressed that particular post to me !!Here it is :”
    Not me YS, that was Ian Edwards. Use the search facility to confirm that.

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 3  0

    #5098
27. Ian Edwards

    07/03/2010 at 12:14 pm

    Which is why, Yiannis, I said you were a complete tool, and well past your use-by date…

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 5  2

    #5099
28. Ian Edwards

    07/03/2010 at 12:24 pm

    So, Yiannis, speaking of “MAN ENOUGH TO DO SO”, are you man enough to get up on your hind legs and apologise to Malcolm for your error?

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 2  1

    #5100
29. yiannis savvides

    07/03/2010 at 12:25 pm

    My apologies Malcolm , I can see that I used Malcom , instead of Ian !
    That explains the total stupidity of that assertion , Ian the brains has inside information that we are not privy too.

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 2  0

    #5101
30. Malcolm Channing

    07/03/2010 at 12:51 pm

    That’s OK YS, I thought I was having a senior moment there.

    Constructive or Abusive: 0  0

    #5102
31. polly

    07/03/2010 at 2:04 pm

    Now now boys – play nicely.

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 1  0

    #5103
32. Ian Edwards

    07/03/2010 at 2:54 pm

    Good boy Yiannis…you had me worried there for a minute.

    Now, let me try to clarify for you, as I realise you are still having problems with the language, exactly what point I was making. I said that “the north part of Cyprus is as much occupied by Turkey as the south part is by Greece”. You claim Greece doesn’t occupy the south part of Cyprus, so what do you reckon I’m saying? Do you need it spelled out any more clearly?

    We see and feel the effects of the Turkish troops in the north about as much as the GCs in the south do the Greek troops. Do you understand now?

    And my comment about the relative troop numbers is simply that…a comment I heard from someone who seemed to know. You may take it with the same grain of salt you’ve been using for most of the comments on this site you don’t agree with.

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 5  1

    #5105
33. polly

    08/03/2010 at 4:34 am

    Well, all I can say is if I were to put that ‘grain of salt’
    in my salt shaker, I would never have to buy any again.

    Still what a ‘good news’ weekend it has been and we sure need some.

    All this posturing – the air reeks of testosterone.

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 1  0

    #5120
34. yiannis savvides

    08/03/2010 at 7:40 am

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Ian ,much of what you say is total crap . Do you understand what I’m sayin or shall I put it in another context that would be more familiar to your single brain. Man you talk shit.
    The UN , the EU , the entire international community do not recognize the pseudo state and consider this part of Cyprus as being under the occupation of Turkey. All nations do so.
    Then along come the British cheapscates , mostly senile old farts , unwisely invest in dubious properties , and embark on a crusade of endorsing the pseudo state and denigrating the only legal sovereign power over the entire island as defined by the UN and THE .
    You subscribe to the notion that he who has might also has rights .
    You are a bunch of yobs and I consider each and every one of you as the enemies of the Cypriot people .
    You have made some disparaging remarks about my person , typical contention of birdbrained individuals !!

    Unacceptable Behavior. Constructive or Abusive: 2  3

    #5124
35. Thunderbox

    08/03/2010 at 10:03 am

    YS Please consider changing your medication, its not working.

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 2  1

    #5127
36. Ian Edwards

    08/03/2010 at 10:03 am

    Sorry it’s taken me a while to get back to you, Yiannis…I had to go to the doctor because I sprained my back when I fell off my chair laughing at your last post. I realise now that you are simply not capable of understanding my point about occupancy, so I won’t bother with it any more.

    But disparage you??!! For a start, all I said was that you clearly had trouble with the language, which after 50 years you really should not have. That’s a fact, mate.

    But Yiannis, I ask you in all seriousness, who would you consider to be the King of Disparagement, the Master of Abuse and the Grand Poobah of Insult on this site? I’ll tell you later if you can’t decide…

    Like most GCs and all bullies, Yiannis, you dish it out incessantly, but when someone bites back ever so gently you can’t take it and run home to mummy to complain.

    Gawd…

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 3  2

    #5128
37. polly

    08/03/2010 at 11:38 am

    Ian you have gone from a single cell brain to a birdbrain – so
    you cannot fault his vocabulary.

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 1  0

    #5129
38. yiannis savvides

    08/03/2010 at 1:06 pm

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Ian I do hope that the injuries sustained were not debilitating , after all we don’t want you to be a cripple as well as mentally decrepit now do we !
    Almost forgot , any news on a link pointing to the massacre that was taking place 6 years prior to the Turkish invasion ?

    Unacceptable Behavior. Constructive or Abusive: 0  2

    #5134
39. vaughan williams

    08/03/2010 at 1:42 pm

    YS,

    Obviously some relevant date here “6 years prior…”
    Are you referring to the year 1968 or the period 1968 to 1974?

    Good Contribution. Constructive or Abusive: 1  0

    #5137